IETF Logo Mail Archive

RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Tue, 24 November 2020 14:24 UTC

Return-Path: <pthubert@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA26B3A0E96 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 06:24:55 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.72
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=WM28Tw8V; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=Z5QPk3I/
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R6N3UvbBrD2M for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 06:24:52 -0800 (PST)
Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD0833A0EBC for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 06:24:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3166; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1606227891; x=1607437491; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=aKZZQOxsFA/sMv3mS3S0kV7i2965oLoOP/vi0A1TChI=; b=WM28Tw8V92aY3Y28Uybosdemzlte61h8/ckq1votR4PY/MH/yrXMAWSp d7HQnZvdneR7MaEvV6ZzMCDW2OGNTj+fHCfn3f317tR6OWa9aRIYrNkh4 TNJhNKWLvIyp35x6F4Ip890YLBclrOO11etbFnCWcAIQCdyFqfVz8w64Y I=;
X-IPAS-Result: A0ByBwCeFr1ffYQNJK1iHQEBAQEJARIBBQUBQIFPgVIpKHtZLy4KhDODSQONWpkEglMDVAsBAQENAQEYCwoCBAEBhEoCF4IVAiU4EwIDAQEBAwIDAQEBAQUBAQECAQYEFAEBhjwMhXIBAQEBAwEBEBERDAEBLAsBCwQCAQgRAgEBAQEDAiYCAgIlCxUICAIEAQ0FCBqDBYJVAy4BDqMhAoE8iGh2gTKDBAEBBYUjGIIQCYEOKoJzgmZOQoZXG4FBP4ERQ4IhLj6CXQEBAgGBXoMVM4IskEqDJ6RcCoJuiRSKcIc+gxqPaI8Ek12LBIoKhx2EOAIEAgQFAg4BAQWBayGBWXAVO4JpCUcXAg2OHzduAQKCSYUUhUR0AjUCBgEJAQEDCXyOOQGBEAEB
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23:1tDfPBXI1n4lPL/Kul09E0MK/bPV8LGuZFwc94YnhrRSc6+q45XlOgnF6O5wiEPSBN+Huf5BgvDd9aHtRWJG5oyO4zgOc51JAhkCj8he3wktG9WMBkCzKvn2Jzc7E8JPWB4AnTm7PEFZFdy4awjUpXu/vjIXEw/0cwt4OuqzHZTd3Iy70umo8MjVZANFzDO2fbJ1KkCwqgPc/skbiIdvMOA/0BzM93BJYO9Rg2hvIAGe
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.78,366,1599523200"; d="scan'208";a="598989839"
Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 24 Nov 2020 14:24:50 +0000
Received: from XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (xch-rcd-001.cisco.com [173.37.102.11]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 0AOEOnuv031923 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:24:49 GMT
Received: from xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:24:49 -0600
Received: from xhs-rtp-003.cisco.com (64.101.210.230) by xhs-rcd-003.cisco.com (173.37.227.248) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 08:24:49 -0600
Received: from NAM11-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (64.101.32.56) by xhs-rtp-003.cisco.com (64.101.210.230) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 09:24:48 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cXdPb/kLFBhfN1O3pHI3ExwDSuAGsqXoljVFH+Hwt/nWN/RaeWtHAFiakccEOkmjsi5svFLz9mp7Fh0Qqr8ZZ4NH91kKDo6lPGEw4vxOg5+PmAtLY27WuE+6eVx/3O3SFgLlkva7bX8wxsrTB0N3Zv6VfZhMMikW7IcL7nqkWU19nWNVvTTP1zk/tuHkV/BDxGvP1dZsbkvtUyhh30um2LIg+TmL4tBJFUjBDHSdlB90EsHvD3hOk2dKhn1vdkHhPlu4/Lo6MN/lZmBZqGizz3g1J5Ns80UDIVFOv17TcXKYu7y2Sr6WnxUv7dPs+UZyMpEGXuk4b1K/993jqFCNcQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=aKZZQOxsFA/sMv3mS3S0kV7i2965oLoOP/vi0A1TChI=; b=hYhL85G9WaP8PPaR0PhMQurRl/zoImXRNmIG8VfCt93hB9hxabtulUOWbwLJLRRSloJtd70fDk/Uekhm0rFcwpMzik5bvbm3yW/+JhagxvoKhgjdr4lWJFQUj0lUemcdp5b/L9K+aGaSzAsLfLoGdfxowGRpW8KaEr7p5/h6DPUflRV3FVSwpEk09Bp+WJcT7p+Jt9SvfZAzPrFOdQMFiBe12mUczqTONWbrDBNp8s5dAtI7PTJdiKYJZ20FFMRZHQ3uAc4nUwSzpXm+JS4UfhwQdK8fbm/DtWakJzEKHGmcDdqsrr0vgNwDP2rTPKXnggHGGckiV+Zsb98iwrIC0A==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=aKZZQOxsFA/sMv3mS3S0kV7i2965oLoOP/vi0A1TChI=; b=Z5QPk3I/fFGfXbufqfBLRZ7kyWs0++Bn65Kvo+p3UwATJSo5TrbZM8JhQM6Wq6Swjag+g1vjuJC08R2iZski98Q0y8Eiz/eyOIPCSeIEno0l1u+EER7PfkNg0c64IGw3ycXwLO22llPwYmTKDLMi3vjIgbTtX2vkM9gx2osNICY=
Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:91::20) by MWHPR11MB1888.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:300:10e::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3589.29; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:24:47 +0000
Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc25:3e72:3e83:7df6]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fc25:3e72:3e83:7df6%4]) with mapi id 15.20.3564.025; Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:24:47 +0000
From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "otroan@employees.org" <otroan@employees.org>, Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-1.phicoh.com>
CC: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?
Thread-Index: AQHWwWx8hRdZ0+Gjz02hr/+CM8zWL6nWfrEAgABVowCAAGBbAIAABRMDgAABVoCAAAPGFIAADCEAgAAGSICAAAErYA==
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:24:36 +0000
Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:24:21 +0000
Message-ID: <CO1PR11MB48816D2AA16EB37DB335F3A9D8FB0@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CABNhwV2-dH81CY4wSisV8BU-7H9m5a1xYMqTMecRxhNqZe=ApQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr1xV179LZ7Kxtk5mGruJcJ+BpGb2heBBy4ORtRU7bfvqw@mail.gmail.com> <CAMGpriWqnmL0qo0Hm=b+GbzcdCuXz6PM5aq8owE7-=ty5pDFsw@mail.gmail.com> <1DB65027-BEF2-4C0A-ACF4-C979DA7444C2@employees.org> <m1khXWs-00007wC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <47150D97-27D7-4AFD-8418-692D68D09828@employees.org> <m1khXol-0000MEC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <BD254B32-FAAE-4433-9CF5-2AF19275CA96@employees.org> <C9C0C278-0055-402B-A2BC-E7EE20C66483@cisco.com>
In-Reply-To: <C9C0C278-0055-402B-A2BC-E7EE20C66483@cisco.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dmarc.ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc.ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.44]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7821af6e-2ed7-4be8-4d72-08d89084b289
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR11MB1888:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR11MB18888003150427CC2629551DD8FB0@MWHPR11MB1888.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: H3tqzbeT+KUzGYmw1bxyJ6E+aDZ8wkwRTZLf8gD9zj7aYDMCiqNRTDv1RHM///OljcyDMzcyjYTiyE3sRRuMm+EYDTOtqHZhCa1jbGd5UmwiMbFJNm/rCLQQq8OCihM5tiNLNGIlHzPqkCT0mJ14HwspyO5OTUtvvBUAJ9/XaGWfrdoiHAwxBMmdsITr7SbhuZiWm1HJc+3ashSpVrNdITWlaJhDWhY00kM7hJPE4E8xo1h1Id3KZD34VzuD+PInZgipchlWKdmGI1i3y1uMpulPggvJnI76Mu2Hdl+aON2yrDDuDLUF8ztq6Mu+nFNswUSgFoIKVhMd6qyJE1VLVcGOFlDNXDVSDtOK4fmMzf4Ia5PkIOeWHNJmn475JoCuuFRXbQbful4sM8LAMZH0hw==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(396003)(136003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(366004)(316002)(110136005)(66946007)(66446008)(76116006)(66556008)(66476007)(64756008)(71200400001)(5660300002)(33656002)(2906002)(53546011)(6506007)(6666004)(8676002)(52536014)(86362001)(4326008)(8936002)(55016002)(26005)(966005)(7696005)(9686003)(186003)(478600001)(83380400001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7821af6e-2ed7-4be8-4d72-08d89084b289
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Nov 2020 14:24:47.5841 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: vDI5jFK3wYA7QXQzqhA1qZIxZTfVRY26JjWyrRm0pyNxBXJC68h9UVYcmk33quIJPp+XiXImaA8U0YCz+twrSg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR11MB1888
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/DHwZZrtutk1l7BalUCpljHUVNzs>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2020 14:25:03 -0000

Hello Eric:

Maybe as a keep alive; RFFC 6550 expects that there's such a thing and suggests to use ND. The peers use NS/NA exchange their Link Local addresses and no or empty SLLAO. 
Then they use the link locals to do their protocol exchange, e.g., IGP.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8505#section-5.6 formalizes the use of link local addresses with a scope of uniqueness which is the pair of nodes, regardless of whether the radio reaches some other nodes at this particular moment. I've seen people oppose RFC 8505 with P2P designs and that's not an indication that they read the spec.

Because the scope of the 2 Link local addresses is the pair of nodes, DAD is instantaneous for link locals, and link local operations can start immediately.

Also note that the classical NS/NA, just like the classical ARP, are not ideally suited. The desire being to form P2P L3 links and find out who's on the other side (which addresses). You'd like to ask a question like what's your LLA, what's your complete set of addresses on this link, an IPv6 adaptation of inverse ARP. This is what we tried to do with https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-3122bis, from which RFC 8505 takes its most ancient roots. 

Keep safe;

Pascal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
> Sent: mardi 24 novembre 2020 15:00
> To: otroan@employees.org; Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-6@u-
> 1.phicoh.com>
> Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor
> handset supports PD?
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "otroan@employees.org"
> <otroan@employees.org>
> Date: Tuesday, 24 November 2020 at 14:39
> 
> 
> >    To be clear. If a link-type has no L2 address / is point to point, then no
> implementation I've touched does ND address resolution.
> 
> Indeed, what would be the purpose of NA if there is no L2 address to advertise ?
> 
> -éric
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email