RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com> Sat, 17 October 2020 20:20 UTC
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From: Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com>
To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
CC: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Index: AQHWpJ2ehK8kJTIqq0it5ZwxmwamB6mbweWAgAAM9oCAAAO4gIAAaBhg
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 20:20:40 +0000
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References: <81c2b0adda744231ae790408dcb594a2@boeing.com> <C38A7B84-6451-42C3-925D-09BEDBA319AD@employees.org> <053deb1bf9c149df98ad3e75d60bfe93@boeing.com> <312E6A75-75D7-409D-85FB-6ACCBA2474F3@gmail.com> <49d4846dc5cf43e8921fe02d63810437@boeing.com> <43BBB7E0-3E55-4F6A-A49B-54AB0BB760FA@gmail.com> <1b205cd1ec3f4602b12b178a1c769944@boeing.com>
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Hi Fred, I could not imagine how many governments would agree to share 1 block for specific purpose. Additionally, different governments would have 1000x different scalability needs. I mean: it is not possible to just "request block for this purpose" upfront. The architecture should be scalable to add blocks ad-hoc in the future. Eduard > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: 17 октября 2020 г. 20:01 > To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> > Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; atn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address > (OMNI) > > Hi Bob, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:47 AM > > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > > Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Manfredi (US), Albert E > > <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>; IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole Trøan > > <otroan@employees.org>; atn@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 > > address (OMNI) > > > > Fred, > > > > > On Oct 17, 2020, at 9:01 AM, Templin (US), Fred L > <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > > > > > Bob, it looks like our notes crossed at approximately the same time, > > > but I would say the same thing to you that I just said to Bert - we > > > will want all four of LLAs (for the control plane), SLAs (for the OAL) and > ULAs/GUAs (for end-system addressing). > > > > I think we are saying you are asking for too much. > > The ask is to bring SLAs off mothballs and back into service - it would be a good > use of an otherwise wasted space. > > > > About your scale calculations, there will be far more terrestrial > > > vehicles, urban air mobility vehicles, drones, pedestrians etc. than > > > there are the number of aircraft currently worldwide. But, scale is > > > just one dimension of the problem space and the more important dimension > is *function*. > > > > Where is the problem statement for this? > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/ > > > This is far beyond what was I understood was called for in the OMNI > > liaison letter (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1676/ ) that we > > thought the OMNI draft was focused on. The liaison letter talks about aircraft, > not vehicles, drones, pedestrians, etc. > > > > I read what you are saying is a mobility solution for everything. > > What we have been designing for the aircraft domain appears to be a good fit > for other mobility domains as well, with the above draft as evidence. I believe > we can satisfy the aircraft in the near term while still allowing for more general- > purpose mobility applicability. > > Thanks - Fred > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Thanks - Fred > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden > > >> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:52 AM > > >> To: Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> > > >> Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>; > > >> Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; atn@ietf.org > > >> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 > > >> address (OMNI) > > >> > > >> Bert, > > >> > > >>> On Oct 16, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Manfredi (US), Albert E > <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ole Troan > > >>> > > >>>> I would challenge you to make OMNI entirely free from semantic > > >>>> addresses. That would also help the working group understand > > >> what benefits semantic addresses bring to OMNI. And what the tradeoffs > would be. > > >>> > > >>> I think it's a matter of speed and simplicity, no? You avoid that > > >>> extra protocol, to assign addresses. Same idea as embedding the > > MAC > > >> into the IPv6 address. But it's true that the IETF likes to stay away from > semantic addresses. > > >>> > > >>> The path of least resistance, from all the back and forth, as of > > >>> now, seems to be to either use ULAs, or to request a new /10 for > > this > > >> new purpose. > > >> > > >> I did some searching, found that there are currently about 500K aircraft of > all types (general aviation, commercial, military, etc.). > > >> Allocating a /10 seems excessive to me for this even with a lot of growth. > > >> > > >> Using ULAs would be fine. This might even be a good justification to use > the other half of the ULA space as I suspect the ICAO > > could > > >> be an allocation authority. > > >> > > >> Bob > > >> > > >> > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
- Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Fred Baker
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Fernando Gont
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Fernando Gont
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Ted Hardie
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Ole Troan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Michael Richardson
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Philip Homburg
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Michael Richardson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu