Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?

Hi Masanobu,

Yeah, knew that, but didn’t looked at that web page before, and it looks to me very interesting action for IXs ;-)

There is at least a company that I know, already offering this as a commercial service.

Regards,
Jordi

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Masanobu Kawashima <kawashimam@vx.jp.nec.com>
Responder a: <kawashimam@vx.jp.nec.com>
Fecha: martes, 21 de noviembre de 2017, 5:11
Para: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Asunto: RE: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?

    Hi Jordi, 

    > At some point the NAT64 service, instead of being provided by the ISP it will make sense to be provided by third party
    > companies, even if there is some extra delay to reach a remote NAT64, etc., and even if there is an extra cost for that
    > customer that still requires it. 

    In Japan, JPIX(Japan Internet Exchange) is providing 464XLAT trial service 
    to ISPs. 
    https://www.jpix.ad.jp/en/technical_exchange.php 

    PLAT(NAT64 service) is providing from JPIX, then ISPs are using CLAT CPE. 
    We might need this kind of service near future. 
    Just FYI. :-) 

    Regards, 
    Masanobu 

    ==================================== 
     NEC Platforms, Ltd.                 
     Access-Device Division              
     KAWASHIMA Masanobu                  
     kawashimam@vx.jp.nec.com            
     https://www.necplatforms.co.jp/en/  
    ==================================== 

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
    > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2017 5:13 AM
    > To: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
    > Subject: Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?
    > 
    > And by the way …
    > 
    > At some point the NAT64 service, instead of being provided by the ISP it will make sense to be provided by third party
    > companies, even if there is some extra delay to reach a remote NAT64, etc., and even if there is an extra cost for that
    > customer that still requires it.
    > 
    > Regards,
    > Jordi
    > 
    > 
    > -----Mensaje original-----
    > De: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> Responder a:
    > <jordi.palet@consulintel.es>
    > Fecha: lunes, 20 de noviembre de 2017, 21:11
    > Para: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
    > Asunto: Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?
    > 
    >     It is clear to me that hotel rooms need to provide IPv6 + IPv4-as-a-service (for example using a CE or AP with CLAT).
    > 
    >     The hotel network or its access can be IPv6-only and then the ISP provide the NAT64.
    > 
    >     I’m sure someone will argue that this means perpetuating IPv4: Is not the case.
    > 
    >     The case is being realistic about what an ISP or an hotel or any other organizations NEEDs to provide to their customers
    > if they want to keep them.
    > 
    >     If the hotels provide IPv6 + IPv4-as-a-service, the customer is happy and more and more traffic is moving from IPv4
    > to IPv6 in a natural way.
    > 
    >     If some app developers don’t see it, or if some content providers or enterprises where the VPN is being connected,
    > there will be a point where the IPv4 traffic is meaningless and they have the risk that at that point the IPv4-as-a-service
    > is not offered anymore, not because the cost of the CLAT, but because the cost of the NAT64.
    > 
    >     The only way we can motivate all them to move to IPv6 is to make sure that when, for example 75% of the Internet traffic
    > is IPv6, we clearly announce that IPv4 is historical, has not maintenance, and will be dropped and unsupported and will
    > not be able to be reachable. It is the ISPs work to decide if they want to keep providing NAT64 or not, and to tell their
    > customers. At some point, more and more ISPs will drop that service. Wherever that point is at the 75% of IPv6 traffic
    > or 95% or something in the middle is to be decided by each ISP, also maybe depending on their competitors, etc.
    > 
    >     I recall a few years ago when a phone company in Spain still had a few customers with old “pulse disk phones”. They
    > took the decision to cancel the contract to those customers if they don’t want to get the phone replaces with DTMF phones.
    > 
    >     Same today is happening with customers with ADSL where there is GPON coverage. You accept to be replaced to GPON,
    > or they cancel the contract, because it is more expensive to keep a few “old fashioned” customers that the profit they
    > generate.
    > 
    >     Regards,
    >     Jordi
    > 
    > 
    >     -----Mensaje original-----
    >     De: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
    >     Organización: University of Auckland
    >     Responder a: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
    >     Fecha: lunes, 20 de noviembre de 2017, 20:37
    >     Para: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Mohamed Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
    >     CC: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
    >     Asunto: Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?
    > 
    >         On 21/11/2017 02:36, Ole Troan wrote:
    >         ...>> [Med] These are generic statements, Ole. We are talking about the IETF case.
    >         >> * The IETF has no control on the hosts that connect to the IETF network,
    >         >> * IETF attendees who are using corporate devices, have no control on these hosts
    >         >>
    >         >> So, how forcing devices to use "IPv6+nat64" will help here?
    >         >
    >         > Eat own dogfood. Many IETF people are developers or work for companies having applications not working.
    >         > As I said there were a minimum of applications that didn't work. Corporate VPNs largely did. Jen has the final
    > numbers.
    > 
    >         However, as long as even one application, such as one VPN, or one
    >         literal IPv4 address, fails, that represents millions of failure cases
    >         if we consider the whole world (e.g. imagine every hotel network in
    >         the world running IPv6+NAT64 only). That simply isn't viable. Dual
    >         stack in every hotel room in the world is viable, from the hotel guests'
    >         point of view. Operators might not like it, but users wouldn't care.
    > 
    >             Brian
    > 
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