RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Mon, 30 November 2020 21:53 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-7@u-1.phicoh.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?
Thread-Topic: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD?
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Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2020 21:52:47 +0000
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Anyone who would miss having SEND/CGA on OMNI interfaces needs to speak up now; else, they will be gone from the next draft version and OMNI will perform IPv6 ND message authentication over Internet links the same as for Teredo. Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 12:25 PM > To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-7@u-1.phicoh.com>; ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD? > > Philip, > > For my OMNI case, I have convinced myself that I could drop this line of investigation > (i.e., and refrain from coding bits 10-63 of the LLA) iff I could be convinced that OMNI > interfaces will never need to use CGAs. I have considered both approaches in terms > of securing IPv6 ND messages on OMNI interfaces, namely SEND/CGA vs. HMAC. > > RFC4380 uses HMAC for its IPv6 ND message authentication, i.e., and does not use > SEND/CGA. And, OMNI use cases for securing IPv6 ND messages are the same as > for RFC4380. So, is that good enough for OMNI IPv6 ND messages also? Will anyone > miss CGAs if they are not supported on OMNI interfaces? > > Fred > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:39 AM > > To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-7@u-1.phicoh.com>; ipv6@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD? > > > > Philip - see below: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: pch-b9D3CB0F5@u-1.phicoh.com [mailto:pch-b9D3CB0F5@u-1.phicoh.com] On Behalf Of Philip Homburg > > > Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:09 AM > > > To: ipv6@ietf.org > > > Cc: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > > > Subject: Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator nor handset supports PD? > > > > > > > your statements > > > > don't match with the reality of Duplicate Address Detection. DAD > > > > is required if there is not going to be any differentiation between > > > > LLA generation mechanisms. > > > > > > DAD is required, but DAD cannot detect things that aren't there. > > > > DAD is a "cry in the wilderness" to see if anyone with a duplicate address > > is out there. The vast majority of times there will be no answer, but many > > LLA specs still say that the cry must be made. If I have an LLA type for which > > DAD is not required, and I apply it to an interface that may be exposed to > > other LLA types, I do not want the non-DAD LLA type to incur the burden > > of making the cry. > > > > > If two hosts have different MAC addresses then their EUI-64 IIDs cannot collide. > > > > Yet, for RFC4291-based LLAs the specs say that DAD is required. > > > > > By and large the implementation of the pseudo random IIDs generators is good > > > enough the collision don't occur. > > > > Yet the specs say DAD is required, unless Optimistic DAD is invoked. > > > > > Of course, there are plenty of lines that end up in loopback. But in that case > > > your flags scheme would not help either. > > > > I don't understand the loopback comment. > > > > > > I want to be able to avoid DAD whenever > > > > possible - certainly in the aviation domain this is very important. > > > > And, having the LLA Type field would aid in capitalizing on cases > > > > when DAD can be avoided. > > > > > > You are trying to burden every IPv6 system with the specific needs you have > > > for aviation. That is a bad trade off. > > > > No, there is no burden implied for existing deployments. Existing interfaces > > will see a "Type" value of 0 (i.e., unspecified) and will continue to operate > > as they always have. > > > > > Other link types still have to do DAD, so adding those flags doesn't help at all. > > > > > > If you know that OMNI IIDs are unique, then just specify that on OMNI links only > > > OMNI IIDs are used and disable DAD. > > > > OMNI IIDs are unique because the IPv6 Prefix Delegations they are derived > > from are unique. But, if a node has not been assigned an OMNI IID in advance > > it will have to request one using a temporary IID such as from RFC4941(bis). > > And, it is this temporary IID that needs to be de-conflicted from OMNI IIDs. > > > > Fred > > > > > I think 6lo does something similar for EUI-64. > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
- How do you solve 3GPP issue if neither operator n… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] How do you solve 3GPP issue if nei… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Erik Kline
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Vasilenko Eduard
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP… Jared Mauch
- Re: p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve … Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve … Jared Mauch
- Re: p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve … otroan
- Re: p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve … Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… David Allan I
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Ole Troan
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… tom petch
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Michael Richardson
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Michael Richardson
- Re: p2p interfaces (Re: [v6ops] How do you solve … Jen Linkova
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Michael Richardson
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… otroan
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP … Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] How do you solve 3GPP issue if neithe… Alexandre Petrescu