Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD
Mark Smith <ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org> Mon, 23 May 2011 21:56 UTC
Return-Path: <ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F88E06E7 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:56:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.006
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.006 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.111, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_AU=0.377, HOST_EQ_AU=0.327]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SXh5zHBElvbZ for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp3.adam.net.au (smtp3.adam.net.au [202.136.110.249]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5076FE069C for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 23 May 2011 14:56:40 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from 219-90-253-138.ip.adam.com.au ([219.90.253.138] helo=opy.nosense.org) by smtp3.adam.net.au with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org>) id 1QOd73-00028L-80; Tue, 24 May 2011 07:26:33 +0930
Received: from opy.nosense.org (localhost.localdomain [IPv6:::1]) by opy.nosense.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776E63B338; Tue, 24 May 2011 07:26:32 +0930 (CST)
Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 07:26:31 +0930
From: Mark Smith <ipng@69706e6720323030352d30312d31340a.nosense.org>
To: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to SHOULD
Message-ID: <20110524072631.737ee12c@opy.nosense.org>
In-Reply-To: <201105232111.p4NLBScJ013180@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
References: <C9F53B85.11BE93%john_brzozowski@cable.comcast.com> <201105232010.p4NKAV9X012654@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <53E999C4-E50D-49C9-9B02-8AD7B5641905@gmail.com> <BANLkTinByCkcvd6=wLE6=9h1xLX16AhPVQ@mail.gmail.com> <201105232111.p4NLBScJ013180@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com>
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.7.9 (GTK+ 2.24.4; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu)
X-Location: Lower Mitcham, South Australia, 5062
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>, Ralph Droms <rdroms.ietf@gmail.com>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:56:41 -0000
Hi Thomas, On Mon, 23 May 2011 17:11:28 -0400 Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com> wrote: > Christopher Morrow <christopher.morrow@gmail.com> writes: > > > one gotcha with 'dhcp only' is perhaps folks mean: "slaac to signal v6 > > is on-net, but require full config from a dhcpv6 server". > > How does a host know that v6 is available otherwise? (this may be why > > someone said "you don't really want to do that..') > > Well, if I could go back in time, I would never have defined the M&O > bits at all. > > Just say that at startup time, invoke SLAAC & DHCPv6 both. Then use > whatever is available. That would have been simple and > predictable. (And avoided 10GB of mailing list discussion!) > What if both are available, accidentally or intentionally (due to misunderstanding that it should be one or the other)? Conflict resolution in these sorts of situations isn't always simple and predictable. You've now got twice as many things to configure correctly, and at least twice as many things to troubleshoot if they don't work. I'd think either leaving the status quo, or dumping one of them, and adding the features to the remaining one to make it the functionally equivalent to the dumped one would be a better thing to do at this time. I'm not particularly pro-SLAAC, however I sit back and wonder what is missing from it that makes DHCP essential? It seems to me that the functional reason people want DHCP is that they think it will track address use - but it won't if end-nodes are manually assigned static addresses. SLAAC won't prevent that either - so both SLAAC and DHCP aren't adequate if your goal is to track address use. In other words, its a problem that neither of them adequately address and have tried to address. > (Hmm, maybe I should just write such a spec now, given the M&O bit > definitions are in the twilight zone anyway... Discussion of what to > do with them was effectively removed from the last revisions of the > SLAAC documents, so now there is no clear guidance on how to process > them. The IETF at its finest...) > I'm a bit confused, I find this text in RFC4862 quite clear as to what to do - M 1-bit "Managed address configuration" flag. When set, it indicates that addresses are available via Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol [DHCPv6]. If the M flag is set, the O flag is redundant and can be ignored because DHCPv6 will return all available configuration information. O 1-bit "Other configuration" flag. When set, it indicates that other configuration information is available via DHCPv6. Examples of such information are DNS-related information or information on other servers within the network. About the only thing I'd have changed in the above to make it more clearer is to use the word "stateful" in the M section when referring to DHCPv6 and "stateless" in the O section. Regards, Mark.
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Templin, Fred L
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Bob Hinden
- Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY to S… Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Ralph Droms
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Tim Chown
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Cameron Byrne
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Scott Brim
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … john.loughney
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Ralph Droms
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Ralph Droms
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Timothy E. Enos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Bob Hinden
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mikael Abrahamsson
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … john.loughney
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … john.loughney
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … john.loughney
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Basavaraj.Patil
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Wes Beebee
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … james woodyatt
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Cameron Byrne
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Randy Bush
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Wes Beebee
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … james woodyatt
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Basavaraj.Patil
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Ed Jankiewicz
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Tony Hain
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … sthaug
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brian Haberman
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brzozowski, John
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brzozowski, John
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brzozowski, John
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brzozowski, John
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brzozowski, John
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Timothy E. Enos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Seiichi Kawamura
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Ralph Droms
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mark Smith
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mark Smith
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Morrow
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Carsten Bormann
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … james woodyatt
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Templin, Fred L
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Christopher Palmer
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … john.loughney
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Thomas Narten
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mark Smith
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mark Smith
- RE: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Templin, Fred L
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Doug Barton
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mark Smith
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Tim Chown
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … RJ Atkinson
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Ray Hunter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: Elevat… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Fred Baker
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ray Hunter
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Fred Baker
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Markus Hanauska
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Tim Chown
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ralph Droms
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Markus Hanauska
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Mohacsi Janos
- Re: Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 from MAY … Philip Homburg
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Mark Smith
- Re: [ipv6] Node Requirements: Elevating DHCPv6 fr… Markus Hanauska
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… james woodyatt
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ray Hunter
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ray Hunter
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Mark Smith
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ralph Droms
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Thomas Narten
- Re: Multiple addresses [was Node Requirements: El… Ralph Droms