Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from?

Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org> Sat, 30 May 2020 21:24 UTC

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From: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
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Subject: Re: So where have all these new 6man WG people come from?
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 23:23:59 +0200
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References: <CAO42Z2yxPvG6R_e3LUV1FkxPthgrAQ=Hq4f82k==o=TLXhZi5g@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, 6MAN <6man@ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAO42Z2yxPvG6R_e3LUV1FkxPthgrAQ=Hq4f82k==o=TLXhZi5g@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
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Mark,

With 6man taking on new work, that is outside of where 6man traditionally has worked new participants are both expected and necessary. 

Be that the alt-mark work, bier or segment routing. 
6man has evolved into the intarea wg for IPv6 related work. 
Cheers 
Ole

> On 30 May 2020, at 14:45, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 19:26, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> wrote:
>> 
>> HI Mark,
>> 
>> So what is your recommendation ?
>> 
>> What should make an individual eligible by your standards to express an opinion on adoption or last call of any proposal in 6man or any WG?
>> 
> 
> Since this is a group that does work ("working group"), I think it is
> fair to expect some evidence of contribution to the work the group
> does, such as active involvement in previous working group mailing
> list discussions, authored or co-authored Internet Drafts relevant to
> the working group's purpose, or mentions in working group relevant ID
> acknowledgement sections indicating off-line communication and
> contribution with the author(s) regarding the ID.
> 
> It doesn't seem fair to me that people who haven't contributed work to
> the group get a say in what work the group does or does not do.
> 
> Regards,
> Mark.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> If someone is following SPRING and 6MAN just by reading list archives and he sees an adoption call - by your standards he can not one time voice his opinion ? Very interesting ...
>> 
>> In fact 6man is open also for non subscribers making it very welcoming to anyone to send an email even without joining the WG list.
>> 
>> Sure - in the past I personally experienced folks from a vendor subscribing and voting with an artificial name yet silly enough to use their company internal mailer domain - pretending he is an operator, but those would be rather ugly exceptions then a rule.
>> 
>> Thx a lot,
>> R.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:48 AM Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Do you think somebody who spent many hours of their own time preparing
>>> and presenting this at the AusNOG 2015 conference wants to discourage
>>> IETF participation, unless it is trying to influence group consensus
>>> via membership stacking and using ring-ins (Australian for non-genuine
>>> members)?
>>> 
>>> "Why you should read RFCs and Internet Drafts (and what you need to
>>> know to do so)"
>>> https://www.ausnog.net/sites/default/files/ausnog-2015/presentations/1.4_Mark_Smith_AusNOG2015.pdf
>>> 
>>> On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 01:08, Jared Mauch <jared@puck.nether.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 28, 2020, at 10:25 AM, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am questioning if we are seeing a growth in participation – or a blatant stacking of the floor with people who have never set foot on the lists and will never will again.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> (No hat)
>>>> 
>>>> I’m concerned about how welcoming this might be to new participants who perhaps have a legitimate problem to be solved that they discover in the operations of a network.  This above text doesn’t reflect a welcoming environment, nor one where perhaps someone has something valuable to contribute in a single area of expertise of operations.
>>>> 
>>>> I’m going to bookmark this thread for a reminder next time someone asks me about if the IETF is welcoming to newcomers.
>>>> 
>>>> - Jared
>>> 
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