RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Mon, 20 November 2017 22:38 UTC
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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>
CC: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org" <v6ops@ietf.org>, "dhcwg@ietf.org" <dhcwg@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function
Thread-Topic: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function
Thread-Index: AdNiReoj4OrwrQYST+iGtIF1uM57NgABURPwAAD8gZA=
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 22:38:40 +0000
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Hi Bernie, > -----Original Message----- > From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com] > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 2:18 PM > To: Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > Cc: 6man@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function > > Fred: > > I'm not so sure that this idea is really needed. You can always start both RS and DHCPv6 at the same time if you always know you want > to use DHCPv6? I only want a (single request, single reply) message exchange; I don't want to have to start multiple exchanges even if in parallel. I am worried about links that have bandwidth well south of 1Mbps - some as low as 32Kbps. > In section 2, aren't you missing some "pad" octets to "make" the DHCPv6 message (really the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 option) a multiple of 8 > octets long (as the "Length" field in the ND header is a multiple of 8). A better design, because there are no DHCPv6 "pad" options, > might be: > > A) The pad bytes are after the IPv6 ND Length field (your reserved) and depend on the padding needed - these would be 0 octets > before the msg-type to make the length work out (so the IPv6 ND DHCPv6 option ends at an 8 octet boundary). When extracting the > DHCPv6 message, any first octets that are 0 values would be skipped to find the start of the msg-type (since the DHCPv6 msg-type > cannot be 0). Yes, that works. We could also steal three bits from the "Reserved" field to encode a "pad length" value. The value would tell how many trailing zero octets are present. > B) Use the 2 reserved octets to specify the real length of the DHCPv6 message. Any octets beyond these are ignored. Alternatively, > you could use 1 octet to indicate the number of pad octets (and leave the other octet as reserved). Right, I like using three bits from the Reserved field to encode the number of pad octets. Good catch. > And, of course the maximum sized DHCPv6 message you can send is 8 * 256 - 4 = 2,044 octets. Yes, that should be enough but should be noted. Thanks. > Also, for the "DHCPv6 Solicit" message, I think you want to say "DHCPv6 Solicit w/Rapid Commit"? (You mention Rapid Commit only in > the Introduction.) Yes. Rapid Commit is assumed everywhere but should be explicitly stated. Thanks - Fred > - Bernie > > -----Original Message----- > From: v6ops [mailto:v6ops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 4:41 PM > To: 6man@ietf.org; v6ops@ietf.org; dhcwg@ietf.org > Subject: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unified function > > Hello, > > IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 have traditionally been thought of as independent functions, with the requirement that the IPv6 ND RS/RA > exchange has to happen first so that the node can examine the M/O bits to determine whether it can use DHCPv6. As nearly as I can > tell, this two round-trip process (IPv6 RS/RA followed by DHCPv6 > Solicit/Reply) is the only argument conceivable against DHCPv6 from a functional standpoint. > > The two round-trip process can add significant delay and waste bandwidth especially on low-end data links like many aviation wireless > links. It can also impart unnecessary messaging overhead on more robust links during periods of congestion. > > This document therefore proposes a unification of IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 where the two functions work together as if they were one. > This is accommodated by a new IPv6 ND option in RS/RA messages called the "DHCPv6 option". By working together as one function, > IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 can supply requesting nodes with all link-specific autoconfiguration information and any managed address/prefix > delegations in a single round trip message exchange. > > I would ask these discussion lists to consider what is it that you really don't like about DHCPv6. Maybe you think it is ugly. Maybe you > don't like the way the acronym rolls off your tongue when you speak it. Maybe it has an onerous stigma of being stateful. But, then I > would also ask you to consider what a replacement would look like. Because, I think any suitable replacement would have to > essentially duplicate what DHCPv6 already does. > > Comments? > > Fred > > > -----Original Message----- > From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 1:21 PM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : The DHCPv6 Option for IPv6 Neighbor Discovery > Author : Fred L. Templin > Filename : draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00.txt > Pages : 6 > Date : 2017-11-20 > > Abstract: > IPv6 Neighbor Discovery (IPv6ND) specifies a control message set for > nodes to discover neighbors, routers, prefixes and other services on > the link. It also supports a manner of StateLess Address > AutoConfiguration (SLAAC). The Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol > for IPv6 (DHCPv6) specifies a service for the stateful delegation of > addresses and prefixes. > > Currently, at least two round-trip message exchanges are necessary in > order to perform the IPv6ND router discovery and DHCPv6 address/ > prefix delegation functions. This document presents a protocol for > combining these two round trips into a single round trip by joining > the two services into a single unified service. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-6man-dhcpv6-ndopt-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list > v6ops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/v6ops
- RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, u… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, unifi… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a single, u… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Sander Steffann
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Lorenzo Colitti
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Mark Smith
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 … Lorenzo Colitti
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Michael Richardson
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Michael Richardson
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… STARK, BARBARA H
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 … Lorenzo Colitti
- RE: [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 into a s… Templin, Fred L
- RE: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 … Templin, Fred L
- Re: [dhcwg] [v6ops] Combining IPv6 ND and DHCPv6 … Brian E Carpenter