RE: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Tue, 12 January 2021 22:47 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01FD33A1328; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:47:43 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.119
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boeing.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aPFHnS1G24tv; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:47:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B62BB3A1327; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:47:40 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 10CMlcnf032343; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 17:47:38 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boeing.com; s=boeing-s1912; t=1610491659; bh=/SLyvliaY2JIOce7ystMH9kphwLe/jPAEsD+QxkwVKs=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=fec5UFnO0TA/6HCWTJHmOXrKM8TtXQuHc5lOQc8MNa30J2yUfoJi9SE4SftL68lAq 2CqpRKnNZPWYQQiyA7ASsxepqCHtA2SL33dTVm8RjSPWs0hBKatVIkwRnZataPmq+S IEMh5LBiDfSly/bsjBJmSDVr6SwPsFljmv9boSvmqFVO8ipn2ciG2uV4qEOZKc2QSe Zdl3rzd69aoL9W/oAkupTCLSoYmqhoeRZJ8Do6n/UV6aWsyrSSwVpvEGbaGADu0v4j ni405JVsvEQwC85E3AWyPzuWDYR/jpvgXgGhWzlxT6Nw2gr8pp+iyWEfFncpl4wCiK 0D2OduDpOhf2w==
Received: from XCH16-02-09.nos.boeing.com (xch16-02-09.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.75]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 10CMlRXU032259 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jan 2021 17:47:27 -0500
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-02-09.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.75) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.2044.4; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:47:26 -0800
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5%2]) with mapi id 15.01.2044.004; Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:47:26 -0800
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Bernie Volz (volz)" <volz@cisco.com>, "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
CC: "Dickson (US), Sean M" <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
Thread-Index: AdboRv1b8ifd9On5SaGFHM0jDP097wAqydiAAAN645AACqQb0AAB418w
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 22:47:26 +0000
Message-ID: <a041fb0b35fc4ea6a9a89b40e354a79f@boeing.com>
References: <357eb2060b2e4b4083ab6d01349d297e@boeing.com> <B2D91A40-7AA7-48EC-BD8F-642ABE1E729B@cisco.com> <a05f8218827c4976818257baedd0cbed@boeing.com> <BN7PR11MB25479362C4C0274BA7EBCCAACFAA0@BN7PR11MB2547.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <BN7PR11MB25479362C4C0274BA7EBCCAACFAA0@BN7PR11MB2547.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6]
x-tm-snts-smtp: 031E55226DE262EBC94C6B531A85D2506445682F7A03D281E5A479380B51CD682000:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/OH7Zc9tz5-xABkRtvDFhl73KmpY>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 22:47:43 -0000

Hi Bernie,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bernie Volz (volz) [mailto:volz@cisco.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 1:41 PM
> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>om>; Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <evyncke@cisco.com>om>; ipv6@ietf.org; dhcwg
> <dhcwg@ietf.org>
> Cc: Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
> Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> 
> 
> BTW: If you used DUID-EN, you could easily do what we already do with the DUID:
> 
> For AERO's Enterprise-ID, you can in the identifier field add 2-bytes of type to start followed by the value. This would let AERO use
> many different DUID types under its enterprise number.

FYI, here is the IANA Private Enterprise Number (PEN) code I was referring to
when I (incorrectly) cited AERO:

45282
  LinkUp Networks
    Fred L. Templin
      fltemplin&acm.org

But, that value was not established by any standards action, and indeed it is a
simple matter for anyone to obtain a PEN code from IANA outside the auspices
of IETF standards. It would therefore seem like an enormous DOWNREF to
entrust a random PEN code with carrying the entire global IPv6 address space
that mature IETF standards will depend on. DUID-EN also has the disadvantage
that a 6-byte "type code" preamble is always present, which is clumsy at best
for a function intended to become mainstream in the future.
 
> But this does require the Enterprise Number owner to assure that they always use the 2-bytes type in the future and have their own
> "IANA" to manage it.
> 
> (Organizations tend to be bad at managing vendor spaces as I only know too well - cost saving measures have usually meant that
> people assigned to manage these kinds of spaces are cut or moved elsewhere.)

Right; I don't think our standards should rely on random organizations that procure
a PEN code to be dependable stewards of the space.

> It will be good too see an updated version which provides motivation for a new type - with a clear explanation of why none of the
> existing types are appropriate. Also, you may want to consider text that says something like only use this new type for these specific
> usages, otherwise you MUST use one of the other types.

Working on it.

Thanks - Fred

> - Bernie
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhcwg <dhcwg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 11:42 AM
> To: Eric Vyncke (evyncke) <evyncke@cisco.com>om>; ipv6@ietf.org; dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
> Cc: Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
> Subject: Re: [dhcwg] I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> 
> Eric, see below:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Eric Vyncke (evyncke) [mailto:evyncke@cisco.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2021 5:50 AM
> > To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>om>; ipv6@ietf.org;
> > dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
> > Cc: Dickson (US), Sean M <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
> > Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> >
> > <without any hat>
> >
> > Hello Fred,
> >
> > Just wondering how would this new DUID could be used when several
> > interfaces sharing the same DUID will request some
> > address(es)/prefix(es) over DHCPv6 ?
> 
> I think this may have been addressed in my response to Mark, but the intention is that an IPv6 address that is independent of any of
> the node's physical interfaces and that provides an identity for the node is the address that would go into the DUID. [RFC7401][draft-
> ietf-drip-rid] are two examples where a valid IPv6 address is generated and intended to provide an interface-independent, unique
> and long lived identity for the node. Other examples may be defined in the future as well.
> 
> > If you allow me to guess your use case, then would DUID type based on
> > the private enterprise number (FAA and EASA have ones) could be used ?
> > This would be simpler than requesting a new DUID type
> 
> I was actually thinking that DUID-UUID would be a candidate surrogate DUID because the body is exactly 128bits the same as for IPv6
> addresses. But, by definition, UUIDs are *not* IPv6 addresses since they do not observe the [RFC4291] address architecture.
> Per your suggestion, a private enterprise number could be gotten (AERO also already has one) and then use DUID-EN instead. But,
> then there would not be a standards track specification guaranteeing that the holder of the private enterprise number would
> consistently and forever always apply IPv6 address architecture semantics to their application of the private enterprise number.
> 
> Hence, the proposal for DUID-V6ADDR. Or, if folks would prefer a different name I could imagine alternatives such as DUID-IN6, DUID-
> IPV6, etc. Any preferences?
> 
> Thanks - Fred
> 
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > -éric
> >
> > </without any hat>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Templin (US), Fred L"
> > <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> > Date: Monday, 11 January 2021 at 19:47
> > To: "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>rg>, dhcwg <dhcwg@ietf.org>
> > Cc: "Dickson (US), Sean M" <sean.m.dickson@boeing.com>
> > Subject: FW: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> >
> >     Hi, more and more IPv6 address generation methods are being specified that
> >     intend to generate IPv6 addresses that are highly likely to be unique on either
> >     a global scale or unique within a bounded service domain. So much so, that
> >     some address generation methods intend for the IPv6 addresses to be usable
> >     as node identifiers.
> >
> >     Recognizing this, this document proposes a new DHCPv6 DUID type known
> >     as "DHCP-V6ADDR" that includes an IPv6 address in the body of the DUID. In
> >     this way, IPv6 addresses produced by address generation methods intending
> >     to generate a node ID can be used as unique identifiers in DHCPv6 message
> >     exchanges. This would introduce a single new DUID type, for which the IANA
> >     allocation policy is  "standards action".
> >
> >     Alternatively, a separate DUID type could be allocated for each IPv6 address
> >     generation method. However, that approach may result in additional IANA
> >     allocations and would require implementation updates every time a new
> >     address generation method is specified. Hence, a single generic DUID type
> >     for all IPv6 generation methods is proposed, but open for discussion.
> >
> >     Comments on the list welcome.
> >
> >     Fred
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> >     Sent: Monday, January 11, 2021 10:21 AM
> >     To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> >     Subject: I-D Action: draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> >
> >     A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> >
> >
> >             Title           : The IPv6 Address-based DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID-V6ADDR)
> >             Author          : Fred L. Templin
> >     	Filename        : draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01.txt
> >     	Pages           : 7
> >     	Date            : 2021-01-11
> >
> >     Abstract:
> >        This document defines a new DHCPv6 Unique Identifier (DUID) type
> >        called DUID-V6ADDR that contains a single 128 bit IPv6 address.
> >        DUID-V6ADDR makes it possible for devices to use suitably-derived
> >        unique IPv6 addresses to identify themselves to DHCPv6 servers and/or
> >        other network nodes.
> >
> >
> >     The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> >     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-duid-ipv6/
> >
> >     There are also htmlized versions available at:
> >     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01
> >     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01
> >
> >     A diff from the previous version is available at:
> >     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-templin-duid-ipv6-01
> >
> >
> >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> >     until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> >     Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> >     ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     I-D-Announce mailing list
> >     I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> >     Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> >     or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> >
> >     --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> >     ipv6@ietf.org
> >     Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> dhcwg mailing list
> dhcwg@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg