Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?

Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com> Sun, 19 November 2017 14:10 UTC

Return-Path: <cb.list6@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C6D126DFB for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:51 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.449
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GR7XhiIh7xjT for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yw0-x235.google.com (mail-yw0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E2C31200E5 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yw0-x235.google.com with SMTP id z125so1918433ywb.0 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KFs/zWC4JbA61u0eHM43DQ/XmqgzssMXLYZWU2jzj00=; b=Kloyh0/mV12VhAaxe8O3RUiLbUcS61IgXyQNGJqX6aGV0Gi2QgS1y1AHdLJB5O+1Jf mm9VEe2EQpY25C/j2Igp0s232sI2gXYqMLhF3Pbb+BgIWHHYB0bCyMMHItjd4DSfsEkd XIGYg/hP7XZRdKPziUKk/0Fjq7dHClmwVpoY2sN/BWV3oQRiRc7NisJPWWnrk83/Phed 08UfKBwOXlAY0HYEcZRh9o+78g4qwyjs421ih9+p+Z2S3rCNLlV2NN0yyaolEclwOrvr 68JPg2kMcbXSfO15mWb/n3zJjWubEgTYdM2i6wTdDo9DYNkA1C1zHXZfO4VaHKXDtQki Zw2g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KFs/zWC4JbA61u0eHM43DQ/XmqgzssMXLYZWU2jzj00=; b=FOrko2wz2hxhX3N3ysnn2hJyqH56z+p+qozcqj1icVL2++Kn6HtP6mlAdmwurlylkK RPAylv2DjJSuWt9857g/zGpQZ/2f5p3hfSd9QIZ5WoNJ1J3hlpJ4jdRYS8Mh2hSCXQYx OBRCvXykOGWTCi59jSa7liKZqgAMjgr4eGVES+6/FjPuzcceKbt+oRxr890zMMJrrrs+ zUGX1u0go5fbcQ5/NmUvKyrE8CFGldDW3NVVVdoq4V3+zRNfCfuui9r5uO0C9WbHFqfH 0cIXsE80+I5JMY0CNpIQqWn79ulUw3Z3Nav0Y3UKSU/J4YgCJhXLZWAJqhSMN+KEQjk8 0aEA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5qCxHzKOe7q6RdizJH26vaA/oB47xNtYZtXtHpHNtRPw4M+7Cr GZdInl1s8V643yJoaQoMKmfe/thuQkdtqKRVgnQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYt8WjoI1ADd+Ghqpk+w3dJeCaXq6nXubR3h2CcN1UOQfKy5iU6NaFJRFls9xeD9hLZFeK5ldgNN1e8bWaR0MM=
X-Received: by 10.129.197.72 with SMTP id o8mr7475746ywj.164.1511100649307; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 06:10:49 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <m1eEGbJ-0000EhC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <D43E103C-27B8-48CF-B801-ACCF9B42533E@employees.org> <m1eEHPS-0000FyC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <59B0BEC0-D791-4D75-906C-84C5E423291B@employees.org> <m1eEIGX-0000FjC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <73231F8D-498E-4C77-8DA8-044365368FC9@isc.org> <CAKD1Yr1aFwF_qZVp5HbRbKzcOGqn==MRe_ewaA8Qc8t3+CVu_Q@mail.gmail.com> <44A862B7-7182-4B3A-B46E-73065FC4D852@isc.org> <D42D8D7A-6D19-4862-9BB3-4913058A83B6@employees.org> <CAFU7BARCLq9eznccEtkdnKPAtKNT7Mf1bW0uZByPvxtiSrv6EQ@mail.gmail.com> <183A8772-6FEF-43BD-97F9-DD4A2E21DB90@google.com> <CAFU7BARaJHKOyrD1KAeorbYQwgsmxBLk1QELH+wZ4=HDCP1q-w@mail.gmail.com> <8470b00f-ecc5-0a63-fd8f-a4e2f65a005d@gmail.com> <CFDD8D9E-0726-46C1-9CC7-5C88DD111E9D@employees.org> <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711190939290.32099@uplift.swm.pp.se>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1711190939290.32099@uplift.swm.pp.se>
From: Ca By <cb.list6@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:10:38 +0000
Message-ID: <CAD6AjGQW7BA4BBnZ422cheFxUh0hjVYbdci60A=4yDxh9WfKOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IPv6 only host NAT64 requirements?
To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1a5b7e6c0528055e568902"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/OYyj8osO4kw4FE0tWsGF3AbXR-0>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 14:10:52 -0000

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:45 AM Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>; wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Nov 2017, Ole Troan wrote:
>
> > The challenge we have in front of us is to make IPv6 only work.
>
> When I speak to vendors about this, I get different answers. Some are
> saying "nobody will deploy IPv6 only, so why should I make changes in my
> desktop OS to support it for legacy applications?"
>
> And I imagine any access provider will say "I can't deploy IPv6 only,
> because it'll break a lot of applications that people are using on desktop
> OSes".
>
> So this is classic catch 22.
>
> This was fixed on Android by throwing up hands and giving up on IPv6 only,
> and just installing CLAT on it to make sure most legacy applications just
> work.
>
> On iOS it was fixed by doing bump-in-the-API plus mandating Apps work
> properly, and then waiting, and weeding out apps that didn't work because
> some mobile operators said "we're going to deploy this on a per-device
> type basis" after testing that these workarounds were successful.
>
> MacOS is in-between, because applications that use the Apple APIs get
> bump-in-the-API help, but the ones that use the socket API doesn't. So
> here it's a mix of both worlds.
>
> Windows has none of this.



Windows supports 464xlat

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/networking/2017/07/13/core-network-stack-features-in-the-creators-update-for-windows-10/



Linux also has none of this out of the box on
> any flavour of Linux I am aware of. This means lots of applications do not
> work.
>
> Long tail of applications, is long.
>
> Believing that all apps will get fixed on Windows and Linux (and MacOS) is
> for me a veeeeery long game to play. Also it's a nice idea to start
> opening tickets and trying to get them fixed, but again. Long tail is
> long.
>
> So only practical way forward here I can see that would yield rewards in
> the next few years is for OSes to implement bump-in-the-API even for
> legacy socket API using applications, that would automatically turn on
> NAT64 traversal for legacy IPv4 applications.
>
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>