Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt> (IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture) to Internet Standard
Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Tue, 21 February 2017 19:44 UTC
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From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 06:43:56 +1100
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Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt> (IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture) to Internet Standard
To: Job Snijders <job@ntt.net>
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Cc: draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis@ietf.org, 6man-chairs@ietf.org, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, IETF-Discussion Discussion <ietf@ietf.org>
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On 22 February 2017 at 04:27, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote: > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:49:32AM +0900, Lorenzo Colitti wrote: >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:57 AM, Job Snijders <job@ntt.net> wrote: >> > ps. The "Write a draft" argument is weak at best, since we are >> > already are discussing a draft (called >> > 'draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt'), which is in IETF Last call, >> > which means it is in a place to discuss the contents of that draft. >> > No reason to kick the can down the road. >> >> I'm sorry, but that's really how it is. The text you dislike has been >> the standard for almost 20 years, and is it inappropriate to change it >> in the context of reclassifying this document from draft standard to >> Internet standard. > > Or, perhaps it is inappropiate for the -bis document to target "Internet > Standard" classification at this moment? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > Especially when solidifying recommendations in an architecture Internet > Standard-to-be, the utmost care should be taken to verify whether the > paper reality (RFCs) and operational reality (what people do, for > $reasons) are aligned. > Flexibility isn't cheaper, it is more operationally expensive, because it creates opportunity for complexity and errors. A very simple example to demonstrate the additional cost of flexibility. You showed the the distribution of prefix lengths in an AS. That may have taken say 5 minutes to assemble and calculate? If all your prefix lengths were /64s, you could have saved 5 minutes because you would know the single value. Multiply that sort of example 5 minutes over the many times you deal with the complexity and errors that will occur when having a range of prefix lengths, and that will add up to a significant amount of time. It was an unavoidable cost in IPv4 because it was necessary to stretch the usable life of IPv4's 32 bits of address space. It is an avoidable cost in IPv6. IPv4 too started out with a fixed or well known boundary between the network portion and the host portion. RFC760: " Addresses are fixed length of four octets (32 bits). An address begins with a one octet network number, followed by a three octet local address. This three octet field is called the "rest" field." I advocate for /48s for all customers over a mix of /56s and /48s for the same reason. The cost of managing the different prefix lengths and resolving errors when the incorrect size prefix is assigned to a customer are significant compared to the savings in RIR fees, and perhaps may eliminate all those savings. When there is a single value or size, there is no ambiguity and no opportunity for error. I think many network engineers (and many technical people in general) consider flexibility to be a a desirable property because they think it means they'll be able to adapt to any future requirement without any significant constraints. It's an understandable view (which I used to have), however, I don't think they often consider the cost that flexibility creates. I've also haven't seen that flexibility pay off as much as it is supposed to. > In those years sufficient data has been collected to conclude that /64 > is not the "be all and end all". Alternatively, it could show that people are applying IPv4 practices they're familiar with to IPv6, even when it isn't necessary. They're missing out on operational savings from simplicity. Regards, Mark.
- Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt> (I… The IESG
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fred Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Karsten Thomann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… sthaug
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- AW: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Karsten Thomann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… sthaug
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… james woodyatt
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Smith
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fred Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… james woodyatt
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… james woodyatt
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fred Baker
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Karsten Thomann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Smith
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Andrews
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Randy Bush
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Erik Kline
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Erik Kline
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… sthaug
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… sthaug
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Philip Homburg
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Pierre Pfister
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Wilco Baan Hofman
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Job Snijders
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… 神明達哉
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Christopher Morrow
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mark Andrews
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Jared Mauch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Jared Mauch
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Pierre Pfister
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… David Farmer
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Peter Hessler
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… 神明達哉
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… 神明達哉
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Xing Li
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Xing Li
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Xing Li
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc4291bis-07.txt… Alexandre Petrescu