Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.

Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@inria.fr> Thu, 31 March 2011 09:06 UTC

Return-Path: <thierry.ernst@inria.fr>
X-Original-To: ipv6@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A858828C1B6 for <ipv6@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -11.249
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0qaZuXw4sqFN for <ipv6@core3.amsl.com>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:06:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr (mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.83]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FEB28C186 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 02:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="4.63,274,1299452400"; d="vcf'?scan'208"; a="95447081"
Received: from dhcp-rocq-243.inria.fr ([128.93.62.243]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA; 31 Mar 2011 11:07:54 +0200
Message-ID: <4D94446C.40008@inria.fr>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:07:56 +0200
From: Thierry Ernst <thierry.ernst@inria.fr>
Organization: INRIA
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ipv6@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
References: <5C4A2B87ED124653A9BDEDAC14D6F2C8@sparrow> <AANLkTintFks2OmnfcnUKah8omAEHgiY8BzVhCxL=bD99@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTintFks2OmnfcnUKah8omAEHgiY8BzVhCxL=bD99@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070100010206040201080606"
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:06:21 -0000

Dear all,

I fail to see why a VIN would be mapped to an IPv6 address as much as I 
fail to see why a passport number would be mapped to an IPv6 number. As 
said by Scott, the purpose of the IP address is to forward packets to 
the destination.

Such an idea is going against location privacy. To address the location 
privacy issue related to the ID of the vehicle used at the networking 
layer, the Car-to-Car Communication Consortium propose to use 
pseudonyms; when it goes to IPv6 communications (all communications are 
not IP-based) this pseudonym is used to configure an IPv6 address, i.e. 
a transient address (you can check the work of the SeVeCom project). In 
the meantime, the vehicle also has a permanent address (indeed, prefix) 
as which the vehicle is reachable (using NEMO). Up to now, there is no 
one in any of the standardisation or consortium I know (ETSI TC ITS, ISO 
TC204, ISO TC22, CEN TC278, Car2Car Communication Consortium) who is 
thinking about mapping a vehicle ID to the IPv6 address.

So, I'm afraid this idea is going nowhere.

Regards,
Thierry Ernst.

On 31/03/11 10:40, Scott Brim wrote:
> Hello Radek.
>
> I have privacy concerns, because the VIN is permanent for the vehicle.
>   I suspect there is a good chance that the vehicle's IP address will
> not be used just for diagnostics, but also for general purpose
> connections to the Internet (for example fetching a movie for the
> children).  If an IP address is based on VIN, then it will never
> change, ever.  It will be possible for observers to build up
> information about what the vehicle's users like to connect to.
>
> Also, if you are a diagnostic center and you receive packets from an
> IP address claiming to have a particular VIN number, how do you
> authenticate it?  How do you know that is really the vehicle it claims
> to be?  You will need application layer authentication in any case.
>
> I believe it would be much better to decouple "vehicle identification"
> from "IP layer location" (the IP address).  These tokens have
> different purposes.  The vehicle identification is for use with
> database applications and diagnostic applications, while the IP
> address is for IP forwarding to know how to reach the vehicle.  You
> could possibly allow the vehicle to connect to the network and get any
> IP address -- any address at all -- and then connect to the diagnostic
> center and tell you its VIN and authenticate, all in a higher layer
> protocol.
>
> 2011/3/30 Radek Wróbel<radoslaw.wrobel@pwr.wroc.pl>;:
>> Dear 6man!
>> My name is Radek Wrobel, I'm writing from Poland (I'm working in Wroclaw
>> University of Technology, Division of Car Vehicles and Combustion
>> Engines). With this idea I wrote to IANA and Leo Vegoda redirected me to
>> you.
>> Vehicle / mechanic engineers are working on a new On Board Diagnosis
>> standard for vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics).
>> Today EOBDv1 can diagnose (quasi online) 849 failures. One of most important
>> advantage of EOBDv2 (but not only it) will be constant, real time
>> communication with service. The best way of them will be indyvidual number
>> for every car vehicles in the world. This number ought to cooporate with
>> global networking - TCP/IP (IPv6). All cars have indyvidual number - VIN
>> (17 characters which indicates on a country of production  and mark of the
>> car: digits and letters A-X). Maybe there is time when someone must think
>> about conversion VIN to IPv6 (like it's in local IPv4)? I've a few ideas
>> about it and of course I can share them if you will be intersting in.
>> Also we cooperate with VW and Toyota. I think they will be interesting about
>> it too.
>> Best regards, Radek Wrobel.
>> +48660406004
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
>> ipv6@ietf.org
>> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------