Re: 6MAN WG Last Call:draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-subnet-model-00.txt

Erik Nordmark <erik.nordmark@sun.com> Mon, 14 July 2008 10:22 UTC

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Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 03:22:44 -0700
From: Erik Nordmark <erik.nordmark@sun.com>
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Subject: Re: 6MAN WG Last Call:draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-subnet-model-00.txt
References: <486388BD.2090801@innovationslab.net> <200807031925.m63JPRp7031611@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <B00EDD615E3C5344B0FFCBA910CF7E1D04E41EB6@xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com> <200807032111.m63LBUCF014613@cichlid.raleigh.ibm.com> <B00EDD615E3C5344B0FFCBA910CF7E1D04E41EB9@xmb-rtp-20e.amer.cisco.com> <m2k5fv6b4b.wl%Jinmei_Tatuya@isc.org>
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Cc: Thomas Narten <narten@us.ibm.com>, ipv6@ietf.org, Brian Haberman <brian@innovationslab.net>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@nokia.com>
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JINMEI Tatuya / 神明達哉 wrote:

> First off, I believe we should be more careful before "deprecating"
> this rule:
> 
>                     - any Neighbor Discovery message is received from
>                       the address.
> 
> As an implementor, I've been aware of the non-trivial flavor of this
> on-link condition, and have noticed it creates tricky corner cases.
> But I've always thought it's intentional, rather than a "bug".
> Although I was not 100% sure in which case this rule is expected to be
> used, I've imagined it might be useful in a router-less network (as we
> briefly discussed in a different thread) or some NBMA network.

Yes, I think both bullet three and bullet four where there for some 
(incomplete) thoughts about NBMA. But I can't see a case when they would 
be needed. The redirect to an on-link target seems to be sufficient.

> BSD variants have in fact supported this behavior for years: I've just
> tested this with a FreeBSD 7.0 box and confirmed it (that is, if that
> host receives an NS from an address that is not covered by "on-link"
> prefixes advertised by RAs, it will create a specific neighbor cache
> entry for that address).  I've also quickly checked that Linux
> (seemingly) supports this behavior, too.

Did you verify that it in fact treats the source of the NS as on-link as 
a result?

I don't have an issue with creating a neighbor cache entry; that has no 
security implications because it does impact anything but the neighbor 
cache on the interface where the NS was received. The question is about 
on-link determination.
Thus will the source of the NS be treated as on-link? Is the behavior of 
the implementations different if the source of the NS falls in a prefix 
which is already considered on-link on some other interface?

> (BTW, I've seen a "security" concern on this behavior in a different
> thread.  I was not sure about whether it's a mere FUD or it has a
> really serious new security implication, due to the lack of details,
> but in any event I'd not buy that argument in this context.  Since ND
> is a link-local protocol, any attack including this one must be
> performed within the same link as the victim.  And once we consider
> such a hostile environment, we already know the neighbor discovery as
> a whole is just vulnerable to many serious attacks.  If we want to
> counter this situation, we must deploy SEND; simply deprecating one
> minor corner case doesn't help).

Unfortunately, RFC 4861 doesn't specific enough about on-link 
determination to say whether that is a global activity, or whether it is 
done per interface.
Appendix A focuses on default router selection on multihomed nodes.

How do different multihomed implementation handle on-link determination?

   Erik

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