IETF Logo Mail Archive

[IPv6]Re: Suggested RA lifetime defaults

Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk> Mon, 24 March 2025 09:18 UTC

Return-Path: <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
X-Original-To: ipv6@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ipv6@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B5471175C04; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 02:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.095
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=jisc.ac.uk
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UK102W7OOBKX; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 02:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR05-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-vi1eur05on2123.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.21.123]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 445111175BF7; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 02:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=gqBM6crQ6jzP4o0TaJGrLPkztrxB6wi0lIFdQ4fbiDouEW40d1VmaUugs+YEmTR85iQiBboPDq40gFs0TKU8rEXLLCRwAb92hbquHBHFUOW+BlPkPkTdEdppWBb+9afAzeyElmXkPHh+E+yFHKcHVdYzTpfEVBkz1oDlIW9l7O1+vVlql5VpKZEyaJOy0S46Xv9q1bTqjM5SGobGnHFt/zFVwgkpRUVr+4/TbIIuUhxkR7aRoLtEw9r4O73A10iULDFza+CAHRAoKzXUwuxZKvj89ufrQArzE4q+cYmHjue3yP6pDP7v776zRszJ1n0eGyjmrV5eGQXkShd2ZQEz+A==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=YJkiyTd51G7jhEUzVGX4SZHD46F8bTtZX67VwOV/lm4=; b=v3Zibt4YuBKiYCpq4RQj+f81nizgYBUdRc9mAlW3ZeZjtyg4OLPOvS5QkVytiXPcNTyYuR5j2DLAsP8SasF7snD3Ldh+fnzB/msgm9SYC5kVXulwCShY2JrLfggGQ6VCGUfywDaItRe+/JzLPuhBR8wNuNTLkrZqYIJkOaKblm1MMSTiptvb3LDx9tEQL4G7VU2A565J5f+zgIYwaP3YSWi3UWBRU/foDpDhC26uFypFzgDI+iU3XEX5qDqC/c/8SFG++bWbJtDBWsylt+ki01wM3wiBuYgbilaRHxiCrSW/i7bfzMq09qJ3h//epAT5F73tKjBpkMPAWG/b+HgtkA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=jisc.ac.uk; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=jisc.ac.uk; dkim=pass header.d=jisc.ac.uk; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jisc.ac.uk; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=YJkiyTd51G7jhEUzVGX4SZHD46F8bTtZX67VwOV/lm4=; b=ORFmEm+QulFaNb0aPGpeSTEelQkz2azSmXI2dWLiI6CvmIBgwSc00QD9cdxHcAfkANCZoTY4QPuxaVY0O5+pTqCKOEZW990vM1Rsn/51IYg69kiuHBoqEBNXNe5wiCPuyc32tmJ6ynAICGTcYGdkgY8wI+iKCySqynTLaXpoPoxYbFG0ox0Li9JaJR9+ekcdZRVrxYqJ9RHF4QvR37Yo/hUgsOEZ3j6oeXCYyd/TJyeS9wedjVxIgamus/EnV9Ars3lwx6iorrjp5y/6c32vgcejxth/iBvOf2wR6pbn//oRJpoJhtF0rESQJ+ZfqQ1YwESjU8TBvU18OOm0eeCeuQ==
Received: from DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:2a6::15) by DBAPR07MB6533.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:181::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8534.42; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:18:17 +0000
Received: from DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::715a:654:afc1:17f2]) by DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::715a:654:afc1:17f2%5]) with mapi id 15.20.8534.040; Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:18:17 +0000
From: Tim Chown <Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk>
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Thread-Topic: [IPv6]Re: Suggested RA lifetime defaults
Thread-Index: AQHbmj/cxGrADYhVPk65eMn7xNLOI7N9S36AgAADqYCAAAEggIAEtilU
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:18:17 +0000
Message-ID: <DB9PR07MB777130A5A4A7001F9C56EC67D6A42@DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAKD1Yr31OgRxA9mNPm12td62s4g7=7rQLWqhnEh7zBQ746oZeg@mail.gmail.com> <10AC956F-5071-4089-8ED7-F25AF36FDD06@fugue.com> <CAKD1Yr0XCncZvMvUxr=toiN21jmaXe02k8xp=+ifOSE0X2a-6w@mail.gmail.com> <A7A8D1E3-8A62-48C5-B06A-61EDC814CA76@fugue.com> <CAKD1Yr0xonoWGDhDv1kNiumXJyQcEHN0024O=w3ceKfe1Zug+A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKD1Yr0xonoWGDhDv1kNiumXJyQcEHN0024O=w3ceKfe1Zug+A@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_Enabled=True;MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_SiteId=48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205;MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_SetDate=2025-03-24T09:18:16.2680681Z;MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_Name=Private - External;MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_ContentBits=0;MSIP_Label_190374fc-c2b5-4c8e-bee8-6305ebc1550a_Method=Privileged
x-ms-reactions: allow
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=jisc.ac.uk;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB9PR07MB7771:EE_|DBAPR07MB6533:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2e22ba9e-8f5c-4593-5cc0-08dd6ab4d02d
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|376014|1800799024|366016|10070799003|8096899003|38070700018|7053199007;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(376014)(1800799024)(366016)(10070799003)(8096899003)(38070700018)(7053199007);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB9PR07MB777130A5A4A7001F9C56EC67D6A42DB9PR07MB7771eurp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: DB9PR07MB7771.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2e22ba9e-8f5c-4593-5cc0-08dd6ab4d02d
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Mar 2025 09:18:17.5421 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 3IwI3X6RBJ5FBhZoObH920inDfnA1E10ICrz3d3bUFWvOmfyxEy9gXzGCaH4frS8+Jua+gZ0pfsh0/UC/mi9KA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DBAPR07MB6533
Message-ID-Hash: VJSU3IEFJGIV5NUTJV7I3Z52X6635MW5
X-Message-ID-Hash: VJSU3IEFJGIV5NUTJV7I3Z52X6635MW5
X-MailFrom: Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-ipv6.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: Maciej Żenczykowski <maze@google.com>, Yuyang Huang <yuyanghuang@google.com>, "draft-ietf-6man-slaac-renum@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-6man-slaac-renum@ietf.org>, IETF IPv6 Mailing List <ipv6@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [IPv6]Re: Suggested RA lifetime defaults
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group (6man)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/VhbVycQM5YVoes6szfoQ-hUnX8I>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:ipv6-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:ipv6-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:ipv6-leave@ietf.org>

Hi,

On 21/03/2025, 09:20, "Lorenzo Colitti" <lorenzo=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 4:16 PM Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com<mailto:mellon@fugue.com>> wrote:
On 21 Mar 2025, at 16:02, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com<mailto:lorenzo@google.com>> wrote:
It's not an unusual implementation, I think pretty much every Android device on the market today drops at least 50% of packets (DTIM multiplier 2).

Ah, okay. I see the objection now. So I think that Android would have to do something adaptive here, and probably it's worth documenting that.

This is not a choice that Android has control over - it's made by Android OEMs. I think we should assume that they do this for a reason - likely, that on many networks, listening to multicast on every DTIM interval is prohibitively expensive, and that their customers would prefer longer battery life over working IPv6 connectivity.

Are the loss figures any different in dual-stack vs IPv6-only networks?  I presume there’d be more chatter in dual-stack with replicated DNS-SD, ARP, etc, than pure IPv6-only?  But is the loss related to the broadcast/multicast traffic levels?  If so, another reason for turning on IPv6-Mostly.

Tim

v2.31.3 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status