RE: [spring] Long-standing practice of due-diligence is expected - Re: CRH is not needed - Re: How CRH support SFC/Segment Endpoint option?

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Sat, 30 May 2020 16:07 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7CD73A09AB; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.095
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boeing.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sS8BJCZBFONu; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B6853A09AA; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 04UG77qc003041; Sat, 30 May 2020 12:07:09 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boeing.com; s=boeing-s1912; t=1590854829; bh=/u+NimroKFOCIIRpLEWSgzly0X6SrMQC2lASABBnCvM=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=aDNVd1AyrHEgZyc+CZIM42JwnY/LdQiFFKWy7OSSMwWUPU89uiQmSc137ufyo/Zdm 3Ps6wT/sv0eRtxD85bkX8Cn8SJz5jguC31F+b0A5aXuq2ggXSjhaOx6JubmPadxSjF /JRaOHOU7D+Qq0O3QaFyoP/bbXRv2h/hfgf2Tmzak0cOp/eVu/Lun95U639EiSCKmQ 2+74HsIy+h2Tf6kHDQT1kzyFtlWrHZUTjsQ3KfZZVdPmAQZmiVOX4TYFnwdiH50Juh RphKxgTT1OLCjcMmBpJo/9IJ/SuyqN0AfisI58h0JsjXPtQB+zULnh94/WYHTW1X/E OTY7uy23H/o+w==
Received: from XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (xch16-07-09.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.111]) by clt-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 04UG6qga001792 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 30 May 2020 12:06:54 -0400
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-07-09.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.111) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.1979.3; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:06:51 -0700
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::e065:4e77:ac47:d9a8%2]) with mapi id 15.01.1979.003; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:06:51 -0700
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: =?utf-8?B?5YiY5q+F5p2+?= <liuyisong@chinamobile.com>, "'Zafar Ali (zali)'" <zali=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)'" <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>, "'Sander Steffann'" <sander@steffann.nl>
CC: "spring@ietf.org" <spring@ietf.org>, "'6man'" <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [spring] Long-standing practice of due-diligence is expected - Re: CRH is not needed - Re: How CRH support SFC/Segment Endpoint option?
Thread-Topic: [spring] Long-standing practice of due-diligence is expected - Re: CRH is not needed - Re: How CRH support SFC/Segment Endpoint option?
Thread-Index: AdY2LQeuJruVW1N0QDmWnMPcn/YLwAAbrqsA
Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 16:06:51 +0000
Message-ID: <cca167f164144c2bb4e2b12b3e98e38c@boeing.com>
References: <03db01d6362d$08c254f0$1a46fed0$@chinamobile.com>
In-Reply-To: <03db01d6362d$08c254f0$1a46fed0$@chinamobile.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6]
x-tm-snts-smtp: 9AB56420593AD683238FB06592BF409996FE3CE9286B6DCE51AAC3801230A07A2000:8
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_cca167f164144c2bb4e2b12b3e98e38cboeingcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/WIBD1JLmQY3tWFGYdkaB2-jcGmk>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 16:07:15 -0000

Here is a very broad-reaching and large-scale use case – worldwide air and ground
transportation (planes, trains and automobiles):

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-intarea-6706bis/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-omni-interface/

Fred

From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ???
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 7:50 PM
To: 'Zafar Ali (zali)' <zali=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; 'Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)' <wim.henderickx@nokia.com>om>; 'Sander Steffann' <sander@steffann.nl>
Cc: spring@ietf.org; '6man' <6man@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [spring] Long-standing practice of due-diligence is expected - Re: CRH is not needed - Re: How CRH support SFC/Segment Endpoint option?

Hi Zafar

I totally agree with you. The CRH solution is more complicated but does not show any more genuine benefits. There is still no use-case document now to provide an understanding of the intended use of CRH.

Thanks
Yisong
发件人: spring <spring-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:spring-bounces@ietf.org>> 代表 Zafar Ali (zali)
发送时间: 2020年5月28日 03:19
收件人: Henderickx, Wim (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <wim.henderickx@nokia.com<mailto:wim.henderickx@nokia.com>>; Sander Steffann <sander@steffann.nl<mailto:sander@steffann.nl>>
抄送: spring@ietf.org<mailto:spring@ietf.org>; Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com<mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com>>; Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net<mailto:rbonica@juniper.net>>; 6man <6man@ietf.org<mailto:6man@ietf.org>>; Chengli (Cheng Li) <c.l@huawei.com<mailto:c.l@huawei.com>>; Zafar Ali (zali) <zali@cisco.com<mailto:zali@cisco.com>>
主题: [spring] Long-standing practice of due-diligence is expected - Re: CRH is not needed - Re: How CRH support SFC/Segment Endpoint option?

WH> My position remains that RFC8663 is a valid alternative and is available; I am against WG adoption of CRH.


The industry widely supports RFC8663.



Instead of denying the evidence, could the CRH authors and proponents finally understand that people are not opposed to new ideas?



People are reminding a long-standing practice of the IETF process. Before tackling a new piece of work, a working group must perform a due diligence on

  1.  whether this new work is redundant with respect to existing IETF protocols,
  2.  whether this new work would deliver genuine benefits and use-cases.



It is factually and logically clear to the working-group that the currently submitted CRH documents.

  1.  fail to position CRH with respect to existing standard widely supported by the industry (e.g., RFC8663)
  2.  fail to isolate new benefit or use-case [1]



This positive collaborative feedback was already given in SPRING.

The CRH authors may change this analysis. They need to document 1 and 2.



Why did the CRH authors not leverage this guidance in SPRING WG?

This was also the chair's guidance in Montreal [2] and Singapore [3]



All the lengthy discussions and debates on the mailing list could be avoided if only the CRH authors would tackle 1 and 2.



The CRH authors must tackle 1 and 2.



  *   This is the best way to justify a/the work from the IETF community and b/ the hardware and software investment from vendors.
  *   True benefits must be present to justify such a significant engineering investment (new data-pane, new control-plane).



Thanks



Regards … Zafar



[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/W3gO-dni2tB4nG9e13QsJnjFgG8/

[2] https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-105-spring?useMonospaceFont=true

[3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/aWkqPfpvDRyjrW8snR8TCohxcBg/