Re: [spring] Request to close the LC and move forward//RE: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming

"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Thu, 27 February 2020 19:59 UTC

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Subject: Re: [spring] Request to close the LC and move forward//RE: WGLC - draft-ietf-spring-srv6-network-programming
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: SPRING WG List <spring@ietf.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
References: <F88E3F76-DD4B-4807-A458-85FABFF20D96@gmail.com> <5D218BFB-0D6F-4F7D-858F-B571A67DC47F@leddy.net> <CAHw9_iJ_ipEvU0NUx44XbK0_DrLe_GRw6G=m+chK4wZcRP8BMg@mail.gmail.com> <ACA082A4-BC78-4C63-9F91-5C9A44F47642@cisco.com> <b693c244-95f9-473e-de21-166393280d18@gmail.com> <CAHw9_iL6oM73JnSU1QL0+PRohSH6sEskD=enH7QsPrWiUfStDg@mail.gmail.com> <CAOj+MMGQqoMXnU-VAjx_PTL-ObbsXTYqhjwuQG6eDxfCwmyJ9g@mail.gmail.com> <30908949-9150-4784-A0FD-69F92889FB3D@fugue.com> <b5cbd567-bfa3-c803-d3d2-025cbcbccfd8@joelhalpern.com> <6EE88981-E5BA-4570-9A19-25C9DA00CCC5@fugue.com>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2020 14:59:51 -0500
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Two different disagreements with you.
First, I did list adoption as well as last call.  In adoption the chairs 
can't very well look back at the adoption to see if there was really 
support.
Second, it is the WG, not the document authors, that send a document to 
the AD for IETF approval.  if the only people who think the AD and IESG 
should put in the work are the authors, how can the chairs say to the AD 
"the WG supports this".  At best, you would have to have a very 
wishy-washy shepherd writeup.  Particularly if it has been several years 
since the adoption.  Or worse, several years since the WG even touched 
the document.

I do try to find alternatives before just giving up.  Extending adoption 
or last call windows, with prompting notes about the work (usually) 
being in charter or even (when appropriate) how important the work is to 
the overall goal.

Yours,
Joel

On 2/27/2020 2:41 PM, Ted Lemon wrote:
> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:27 PM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com 
> <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>> Rather, the case where +1 can be useful is when the question is 
>> whether the working group even cares about the document.  I have had 
>> several cases of calls for adoption or WG last call where there was 
>> almost no response on the mailing list.  In the absence of decent 
>> indication, I as chair feel compleed to say "no, I do not see enough 
>> support to adopt / advance / ... this document".
>> In that situation, even +1s can help.  (And yes, I do watch for the 
>> case of all the +1s coming from the same company as the author, and 
>> then start judging whether they are folks who participate, along the 
>> lines Warren outlined.)
> 
> In my experience this is actually the wrong thing to do.  If the work 
> was chartered, and a bunch of people go off and do the work, and then by 
> the time the work is done the working group has lost momentum other than 
> those people, saying “Oh, I guess nobody cares, we won’t publish” is the 
> wrong outcome.
>