Re: Non-Last Small IPv6 Fragments

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 14 January 2019 19:47 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D05131281 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:17 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tl8qglnRSAOf for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pf1-x42d.google.com (mail-pf1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2399813126B for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pf1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id w73so85715pfk.10 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:15 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q6EAIuxf3wSwnbfFH1rtSJCjvczQfnw6BePmGa0mQxE=; b=t+puHdEuyp8DYJUSIcOmAYwTVXU+Kosf5IVhUNZCIoTdyImQSOPl2wk31ny0edevrJ inpiMltpsyhyhWSpRQx/QUBsEgiwy0XVFvXHQ+H4+amEhlWAG0hnCl67xIdI3v6QJ6lO 7wJ6/9QMUbD+kR5NktQoNFBIZ6oJC0MbH5xp5PMr9JUdEUickzYpc2qpGQRICrrnpULm xTOzM7pqd2g7OXFgwh9DfAWvbAcJht8hKr3RQ+8iIfMiSu1wuWqesSSVL6xta0enp9dg PTL1C9HHm1nQNcCTqqX1vDtQIcBK3qXnbi0gxgEOLjF1OrRIuZMjCLjLbB6w+PKU9g2m eAgg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q6EAIuxf3wSwnbfFH1rtSJCjvczQfnw6BePmGa0mQxE=; b=sUSAWeQIS5jfRbJdAP4GD4soksjudECuQ/oDPXwkS6y9pNzbqExgZoSugngBoRiNti YrB+SH35NbqOR2y+gjuQvs49G+Xpf75h8k0KZYDLAXaIPvAlwEcoFN3XzJtr30GU/9ng q1o5K5ym2cI0pKH1OrHa7A/bkPOlIn7mLbUDeIMk+MpgFVR/WgrAba2vrsCKG6fkC2PE l6h3PbpIaDDn1oChzNA/eLQA0P/+CZucN3a3vybbj1way9JxJW+VGGmmZi6x267j++T3 u42gtI2n1MZWEj5xufUsKqh64hvJYrosl7yMejb1DUO/ukEvQ+6aoVTBAJY400dQNCdP WDRA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukdq2s6aNEOUrBb8Bh74wf7mKmWQvfhn1abo3Vdh992yxPLgSbnk MZG8ZB+2G+6tZHvY4+hujuXjIZRX
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN7YlW43r8FQuDp164sUTojkFFh42SV4fa0UMuALxA6splDm1QqipQ9VQqTu98rLHltrdgx8Tw==
X-Received: by 2002:a63:68c4:: with SMTP id d187mr117120pgc.11.1547495234199; Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([118.148.76.40]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q199sm1644000pfc.97.2019.01.14.11.47.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:47:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Non-Last Small IPv6 Fragments
To: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>, "Bjoern A. Zeeb" <bzeeb-lists@lists.zabbadoz.net>
Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
References: <CAOSSMjV0Vazum5OKztWhAhJrjLjXc5w5YGxdzHgbzi7YVSk7rg@mail.gmail.com> <973A1649-55F6-4D97-A97F-CEF555A4D397@employees.org> <CALx6S34YbBe8xBod3VsWVO33TpZcdxh2uV1vaO8Z_NKnVXp66g@mail.gmail.com> <A3C3F9C0-0A07-41AF-9671-B9E486CB8246@employees.org> <AEA47E27-C0CB-4ABE-8ADE-51E9D599EF8F@gmail.com> <6aae7888-46a4-342d-1d76-10f8b50cebc4@gmail.com> <EC9CC5FE-5215-4105-8A34-B3F123D574B9@employees.org> <4c56f504-7cd7-6323-b14a-d34050d13f4e@foobar.org> <9E6D4A6E-8ABA-4BAB-BEC5-969078323C96@employees.org> <CAAedzxpdF+yhBXfnwUcaQb-HkgdaqXRU3L+S7v8sS1F0OkwM9A@mail.gmail.com> <78a8a0e0-8808-364c-41f7-f81f90362432@gont.com.ar> <CALx6S37YnSbOUgVoWEA46aN88a3CfERWemhQKi_GOrP_g+=rFQ@mail.gmail.com> <308d9dff-87c4-cc63-6792-fcbfce722d1e@gont.com.ar> <CALx6S34kseXuKrrbB44=wz7OQBysUmbJh++N79Da9Kx1rseAUw@mail.gmail.com> <3f87c4ec-636a-790e-0a6a-0a6b4c2f3a35@foobar.org> <046F449C-E19E-4891-968E-975A03162364@lists.zabbadoz.net> <e7a1d5d2-7d7d-00fd-a178-fc2c7f25a167@foobar.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <251b73fd-d08b-018c-4a24-c524dafbe25b@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 08:47:06 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <e7a1d5d2-7d7d-00fd-a178-fc2c7f25a167@foobar.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/XYfzLRthDPMMOd0p5UvDINTz70c>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:47:17 -0000

On 2019-01-15 07:47, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> Bjoern A. Zeeb wrote on 14/01/2019 18:39:
>> On 14 Jan 2019, at 18:12, Nick Hilliard wrote:
>>> Tom Herbert wrote on 14/01/2019 17:58:
>>>> I don't know what it means to "reassemble fragments in the network".
>>>> Reassembly is specified as an operation at destination end points.
>>>
>>> some types of stateful middleboxes do in-line reassembly.
>>>
>>> There are many horrors on the Internet.
>>
>> And maybe it’s time to call them out, say screw them, and either people 
>> have to live with broken stuff or get end-to-end connectivity again.   
>> Maybe it’s time to stop catering for the brokenness and control of 
>> others.  Maybe it’s time to play it hard.
> 
> End-to-end died the day the IETF published rfc1631.

The IETF didn't publish RFC1631. The RFC Editor published it. Although
the Independent Submissions stream hadn't been formally named at that
time, that's what this was.

   Brian

> 
> In-line reassembly may be distasteful but in the scale of things it 
> doesn't cause massive breakage for the types of clients it attempts to 
> provide service to.
> 
> There are lots of other things that are far worse offenders, e.g. 
> encoding transport endpoint values inside data streams (here's looking 
> at you, SIP).
> 
> Nick
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>