Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Sat, 17 October 2020 23:02 UTC
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From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 16:02:17 -0700
In-Reply-To: <1b205cd1ec3f4602b12b178a1c769944@boeing.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Manfredi (US), Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>, IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>
To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
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Fred, > On Oct 17, 2020, at 10:00 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: > > Hi Bob, > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Hinden [mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 9:47 AM >> To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> >> Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>; IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole >> Trøan <otroan@employees.org>; atn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) >> >> Fred, >> >>> On Oct 17, 2020, at 9:01 AM, Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote: >>> >>> Bob, it looks like our notes crossed at approximately the same time, but I would say >>> the same thing to you that I just said to Bert - we will want all four of LLAs (for the >>> control plane), SLAs (for the OAL) and ULAs/GUAs (for end-system addressing). >> >> I think we are saying you are asking for too much. > > The ask is to bring SLAs off mothballs and back into service - it would be a good use > of an otherwise wasted space. There are very good reasons why SLA were deprecated, I don’t see a reason to change that. ULAs are intended to replace the use of SLAs. > >>> About your scale calculations, there will be far more terrestrial vehicles, urban >>> air mobility vehicles, drones, pedestrians etc. than there are the number of >>> aircraft currently worldwide. But, scale is just one dimension of the problem >>> space and the more important dimension is *function*. >> >> Where is the problem statement for this? > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/ That is interesting, but I don’t see any references to that in the omni draft, or any mention at all of ipwave. Nor does the ipwave document reference your omni draft. > >> This is far beyond what was I understood was called for in the OMNI liaison letter >> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1676/ ) that we thought the OMNI draft was focused on. The liaison letter talks about aircraft, not >> vehicles, drones, pedestrians, etc. >> >> I read what you are saying is a mobility solution for everything. > > What we have been designing for the aircraft domain appears to be a good fit > for other mobility domains as well, with the above draft as evidence. I believe > we can satisfy the aircraft in the near term while still allowing for more > general-purpose mobility applicability. That is far from clear to me. To me you have a solution, that changes a lot of things in IPv6, and you are claiming it solves all IP mobility problems. Please excuse my skepticism, I can’t even tell if it solves the aircraft domain. Bob > > Thanks - Fred > >> Bob >> >> >>> >>> Thanks - Fred >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden >>>> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:52 AM >>>> To: Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> >>>> Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>; Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>; atn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) >>>> >>>> Bert, >>>> >>>>> On Oct 16, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ole Troan >>>>> >>>>>> I would challenge you to make OMNI entirely free from semantic addresses. That would also help the working group understand >>>> what benefits semantic addresses bring to OMNI. And what the tradeoffs would be. >>>>> >>>>> I think it's a matter of speed and simplicity, no? You avoid that extra protocol, to assign addresses. Same idea as embedding the >> MAC >>>> into the IPv6 address. But it's true that the IETF likes to stay away from semantic addresses. >>>>> >>>>> The path of least resistance, from all the back and forth, as of now, seems to be to either use ULAs, or to request a new /10 for >> this >>>> new purpose. >>>> >>>> I did some searching, found that there are currently about 500K aircraft of all types (general aviation, commercial, military, etc.). >>>> Allocating a /10 seems excessive to me for this even with a lot of growth. >>>> >>>> Using ULAs would be fine. This might even be a good justification to use the other half of the ULA space as I suspect the ICAO >> could >>>> be an allocation authority. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>> >>> >
- Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Fred Baker
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Fernando Gont
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Fernando Gont
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Ted Hardie
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Ole Troan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Michael Richardson
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Philip Homburg
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Michael Richardson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu