Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]
Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> Mon, 20 November 2017 01:05 UTC
Return-Path: <lorenzo@google.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1301C120721 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:56 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JIT0KYP-tpVi for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io0-x229.google.com (mail-io0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45D031201F8 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io0-x229.google.com with SMTP id q64so1249563iof.13 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:54 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ueLRlF1PWQP/jMwOfUTy5H42HAo1sk0YpAzqqmsFM44=; b=nNTyJhqnWjttGr9ppidiObeCwLKW1XhOq2oC6UfjdEdV0yATlZvvopZFRwFZagITCr /607ZV/egyulUwIIAp6WOsT+QkkI+qmntORSur6hpghGBR3kzwt103mLyDaag0xV3UY+ NktfLMKIZDun5s26/nY0uxcNxD7hTPvB/SOcu+6d2ypic3FfhE6IBrQec4BTzJgrK7f9 gmTX4ix+8fAmPhxYBRdqnJCL40S+cNRttZIqSDv482OLPYFFYxREhXZhpwiBcQ5ARklu xGvlF0t/wfLvXCGKIrfGrRhOTclfbEFzz6g+BfxHQaTqRIOqobbXSAIeUFclLrBQBVBP iyRA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ueLRlF1PWQP/jMwOfUTy5H42HAo1sk0YpAzqqmsFM44=; b=FExbE5F+wmEM6jQkUr3FZN2NNf/oZd5Hn/jWc9Mf0hF7YG6DDw3vhDn+Bo+nITTxWI Tdza7WMJAjXjin52lAqE0LGoK2AlCCvLrAS+JcXu1roqCIQoXxRn5DPagzyTaNL161Kd eSD5wtTubh43oW83D71Iu0z5FSgp/Z1ytF1ARcHntj3UrZrpSdE4lRZsbJE6ffSPtYt2 e1ZxpVU2MjjTmtgIYuSU6395cbFYmCvq2U5wYVgzF1L7uFh/OlgB+fkZA9ql4jZgtvo+ XkPcdHGFPYZBYbJJD0BX0E1KTRHgnk28nHf/q4BIhHhmhUWsFJqKMteHPH7cpV0zUP+4 Onhg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4qEoBgJ97MsBVhyGZalSZkYIRc1AnHhHAtsbFo0h7guam1+1vf jLOEO/C1qgj0Pn/D4KhjYxad+I9W3NWImYH9UAiOE9y06Vw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMafafe10SvOrx0h4rWE/S6im3xV5kKGgSw1uRznLgj3LxqXbECOanqH2Pr5VB3i1+uloV2qsZqcKEgQejv7LJ8=
X-Received: by 10.107.134.227 with SMTP id q96mr12131326ioi.197.1511139952999; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:52 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.107.16.155 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Nov 2017 17:05:32 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <5A119443.2030108@foobar.org>
References: <151090059151.22321.3357672601322845792.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <E838C63E-7612-4AA4-9375-854C184D699E@gmail.com> <CAFU7BAQKoWPcEFQZgU3k_d0gUL4en6d2pyNq1V4RMNZ6HrSG8w@mail.gmail.com> <649be36e-5006-7688-448f-bc2794d6a39c@gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr3WC+vwL_=0PeiJ_D85NqFVTCkb8c83x-ZtGhAbSELGMA@mail.gmail.com> <5A119443.2030108@foobar.org>
From: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 10:05:32 +0900
Message-ID: <CAKD1Yr0YcJ2MjZLkNypV9Dh+F_UNfa2ONxqr1=XJvsUpAveOOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]
To: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Cc: "Brian E. Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>, IETF IPv6 Mailing List <ipv6@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1145f48a1b3aa4055e5fb025"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/Z6HX9ps3Uw3PhyCVahwf1nlbszk>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 01:05:56 -0000
On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org> wrote: > > Let's not forget about battery life. According to the numbers in RFC > > 7772, on a phone even just sending DHCPv4 packets every 2 minutes could > > reduce battery life by ~8% compared to a completely idle device. > > is there any guarantee in this situation that any other apps would not > be chattering in the background over ipv6 anyway? No, but a lot of that can be dropped in firmware more cheaply. Waking up to send a packet is more expensive. Also, the whole internet isn't a mobile phone network, and what might be > relevant or appropriate on a cell network might not be in any way > relevant to another type of network. The most relevant of which being, of course, DHCPv4 itself, which is not used on cell networks. :-) > One relatively straightforward way of dealing with extraneous dhcpv4 > packets would be to create a new dhcpv4 reply option hinting to the > requester to cease DHCPv4 requests on the interface in question, or to > slow down the request rate from one every two minutes to one every X > minutes where X is network defined. > That would certainly work. Like any other DHCP option it would require constant polling on the part of the client, but if X is high enough that doesn't matter. Also, unlike the RA option, it makes it impossible to change the flag with a network push, but in the long term that doesn't matter either. A harder problem is how to add this to DHCPv4 in a way that doesn't negatively affect 20+ years of deployed client implementations. It can't just be another option in the OFFER or ACK packets, since those contain the client's IP address. I don't think it can be a new option in the NAK since RFC 2131 says that if a client gets a NAK it should restart, and I bet there are clients out there that restart immediately without waiting (which would cause a loop). A new message type, with consequent modifications to the DHCPv4 state machine? That seems pretty heavyweight.
- Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ip… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Fernando Gont
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… David Farmer
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Simon Perreault
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Simon Hobson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Erik Kline
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Tim Chown
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Erik Kline
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Jen Linkova
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Fernando Gont
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Fernando Gont
- problem statement [was Re: New Version Notificati… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Christian Huitema
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Michael Richardson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Jen Linkova
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alejandro Acosta
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Ole Troan
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Michael Richardson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Erik Kline
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Fred Baker
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt