Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host))

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 14 November 2017 10:08 UTC

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Subject: Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host))
To: Erik Nordmark <nordmark@acm.org>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>
Cc: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>, "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
References: <be9724f5-2ff5-d90c-2749-ecae2c628b78@si6networks.com> <F2330138-6842-4C38-B5A0-FB40BFACD038@employees.org> <e40697ca-8017-c9d2-c25d-89087046c9cf@gmail.com> <207f040a-7fe2-9434-e7a5-f546b26fdf63@strayalpha.com> <CAKD1Yr26NK2osApYZBm8Yd=0X7xcetrxojp6=JHOEAu9BB0q8A@mail.gmail.com> <8ca59610-2d25-2be4-9d2c-9b1a75fd3ace@si6networks.com> <E67105A3-396B-403C-B741-E9E01CFB5CE7@employees.org> <862687c9-c107-53a8-288a-29049097b0e1@acm.org> <AM5PR0701MB2836C00EA1AAC73E7E63F583E02B0@AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAO42Z2xacRco7ne7biQ93so0k-x4xSnM2jzoB13-sdVRLshQDQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAKD1Yr0Zz6Jxg_ZuEbBkMhBdEaZKOrtx-eUns7KWi9v-5PDBzg@mail.gmail.com> <CAO42Z2xqwRH94dw=XJf5mt3STdDcTYmB_i1NbXP46shdJQeaPA@mail.gmail.com> <E7F9E3EF-B5AA-4698-8BBC-772228129277@fugue.com> <AM5PR0701MB2836DB6E4A3E3F8FC6CA5FE0E0280@AM5PR0701MB2836.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <F762F88F-ABCE-4B91-BA75-66D464420AEE@gmail.com> <03e0242b-140b-4da1-89aa-86987358a99d@acm.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 23:08:16 +1300
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On 14/11/2017 21:47, Erik Nordmark wrote:
> 
> Suresh,
> 
> Thanks for summarizing.
> 
> On 11/14/2017 11:22 AM, Suresh Krishnan wrote:
>> b) Mechanism does not work
>>
>> Given that the mechanism has been implemented and deployed by the 
>> authors, I have a hard time taking this claim at face value. Providing 
>> an unique prefix per host has been standard practice in 3GPP mobile 
>> networks for the past *15 years*. based on recommendations from the IETF 
>> back at that time. When a mobile attaches, there is state created on the 
>> first hop router that does exactly what this draft wants to do. The only 
>> issue I see is a lack of mechanism to clean up stale prefixes if the 
>> hosts go away, but depending on the deployment this may or may not be an 
>> issue.
> 
> The draft is claiming more general applicability that what I understand 
> has been implemented and/or specified in the draft, in particular when 
> it comes to  being able to reclaim the allocated prefixes when the host 
> goes away. The fact that this has been solved in particular contexts 
> (such as the 3GPP one) when there is some other mechanisms to detect 
> when the host goes away doesn't provide any useful information to the 
> Internet community how to make this work in the general case, nor any 
> indication that it can be made to work in an interoperable way in the 
> general case.
> 
> My attempt to find out what has actually been implemented to handle 
> hasn't indicated that there is any agreement or any common way to 
> implement the reclaim in the general case.
> 
> Hence I think the current general applicability is misplaced and if this 
> draft is implemented it would be a nice excuse to consume all of the 
> IPv6 address space since there is no robust way to reclaim the allocated 
> prefixes.

That seems a bit alarmist. I don't think the RIRs will be handing out
IPv6 /16 prefixes because operators have lost millions of prefixes
and don't know where they are. Clearly an implementation of this
is going to have a mechanism for recycling these prefixes when
the host has been inactive for X amount of time, or has gone
physically off line, or whatever criterion they prefer to use.
Do we need to specify that? It isn't a wire protocol. 
(Another way to look at it is that the lifetime of the implied
prefix delegation is identical to the advertised router lifetime.
The host doesn't know it's getting a prefix, it just hears about
a router with a certain lifetime. If that isn't refreshed, it
can no longer send packets and the address will also vanish.)

   Brian
 
> Does the IETF really want to make such a statement?
> 
> 
> Note that I would have no issue with publishing what has been 
> implemented (in 3GPP and/or Cablelabs specifications) but scoped to 
> those environments with their specific reclaim mechanisms.
> 
> Regards,
>     Erik
> 
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