[IPv6]Re: Reclaiming fec0::/10 (I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-mla-01.txt)

["Templin (US), Fred L" <[e-mail]>]

Not quite – please see the new text in Section 4 of the latest draft version explaining why MLAs are
a scoped address of scope greater than LLA but are not necessarily asserted as globally-unique:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-mla/
The uniqueness property applies only within a MANET router’s connected MANETs, even though
they may by nature also happen to be globally unique. So, the MLA is neither an LLA nor a ULA;
it is something else in between.

Fred

From: David Farmer <farmer=[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 1:38 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]>
Cc: IPv6 List <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [IPv6]Re: Reclaiming fec0::/10 (I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-mla-01.txt)

Fred,

I agree that LLAs have this restriction, but they are not globally unique. However, if I understand your draft correctly, MANET's local addresses are globally unique. Even though a MANET Router might be connected to multiple MANET networks, the addresses used on the two networks will not be duplicated and are, in fact, globally unique, making the need for a Zone/Interface Identifier superfluous. This is how ULA works and why they are part of the global scope, even though they are not globally reachable. I think you will want MANET addresses to act and be used more like ULA rather than LLA, as they are also globally unique and not globally reachable. Unless I am misunderstanding your intent.
Thanks.

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 2:52 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> At this time, such a ZONE Identifier is not allowed in a URI IPv6 Literal.

That is also true for LLAs which these drafts speak to directly, correct? The URI considerations for
MLAs should be the same as for LLAs.

Thank you - Fred

From: David Farmer <farmer=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 12:11 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: IPv6 List <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [IPv6]Re: Reclaiming fec0::/10 (I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-mla-01.txt)

The point of my question is that if you define MANET as a scope other than global, some operating systems may require a Zone/Interface Identifier to properly identify the zone you are referring to, particularly Linux, which doesn't currently support the Default Zone. At this time, such a ZONE Identifier is not allowed in a URI IPv6 Literal.

Thanks.

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 1:58 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Thanks for these references. I don’t pretend to know the dynamics between these different drafts
that appear to address similar concerns, but to your original question I think an MLA can appear
in a literal in the name service for a local MANET routing region (e.g., served by mDNS) but must
not appear in the global DNS. This is from my limited understanding of this problem space.

Fred

From: David Farmer <farmer=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 11:16 AM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: IPv6 List <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [IPv6]Re: Reclaiming fec0::/10 (I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-mla-01.txt)

On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 3:36 PM Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
David, regarding your question #1, the answer is I don’t know. Is there a specific section in a specific reference I should look at to understand this question better?

I'd look at, RFC3986 Section 3.2.2, draft-ietf-6man-rfc6874bis, draft-schinazi-httpbis-link-local-uri-bcp, and draft-carpenter-6man-zone-ui/ for the details.

Hope that helps.

As to question #2, it would probably be best to stick with the term “MANET router”; I think of a “MANET host” as a node that does not participate in the MANET routing protocol and is dependent on another node acting as a MANET router for its connectivity. But to your question, I think yes a MANET router can be part of more than one MANET zone, for example where some interfaces connect to MANET A and other interfaces connect to MANET B and the two zones do not mix. This would lead to a drawing that looks a lot like Figure 2 of RFC4007. At least, that is what I think it should look like – what do you think?

Thank you - Fred

From: David Farmer <farmer=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 12:46 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: IPv6 List <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [IPv6]Re: Reclaiming fec0::/10 (I-D Action: draft-templin-6man-mla-01.txt)

Fred,

I still have concerns about whether a new scope is a good idea. But for now, I'll ask a couple of questions;

  1.  Will there be any need to use MANET local addresses URIs as IPv6 literals? Currently, there is no way to put a Zone ID in an IPv6 Literal URI.
  2.  Can a MANET host be part of more than one MANET zone? From the RFC4007 perspective, Zones other than Global have multiple instances.
Another possible issue with reusing fec0::/10 in RFC6724 is that it already has its own label but has a precedence of 1, the lowest. Does that work for your intended use? Yes, it can be changed, but it will take years to make happen.

Thanks


On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 11:52 Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:

Hi, a new draft version is now posted (-03) that addresses comments raised on the list;

importantly, RFC5889 and RFC4007 are now also cited:



https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-6man-mla/



Please (re-)review and post further comments to the list.



Thank you - Fred
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--
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: [phone]
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
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--
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: [phone]
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================


--
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: [phone]
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================