Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.

Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com> Thu, 31 March 2011 14:32 UTC

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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 07:34:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Behcet Sarikaya <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
To: Jong-Hyouk Lee <jonghyouk@gmail.com>, Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
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I meant something like DUID.

--b



> Dear all.
> 
> For Internet connectivity of vehicles, the use of IPv6 (with  mobility
> support, NEMO) is being fully considered at some  standardization
> organizations such as ISO and ETSI. But, I totally disagree  with the
> use of IPv6 as a permanent ID of a vehicle, i.e., VIN,  because
> 
> 1) This breaks the layered architecture concept.
> 2) This  causes security issues, especially location privacy.
> 
> For, the comments  from Behcet, plz see inline.
> 
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Behcet  Sarikaya
> <behcetsarikaya@yahoo.com>;  wrote:
> > I think the idea here is to use VIN as link layer id when  assigning an
> > address/prefix to a host in the car.
> 
> The ITS station  architecture being considered at ISO and ETSI defines
> that a vehicle ITS  station must implement at least three entities such
> as the gateway, router,  and host. The mobility support for Internet
> connectivity, i.e., NEMO, is in  the router forming the in-vehicle
> network where hosts of the vehicle ITS  station are attached.
> 
> So, the use of link layer ID as the VIN does not  make sense.
> 
> In addition, the link layer ID for the router of vehicle is  changed
> frequently, e.g., randomly generated ID is used for  preventing
> location tracking. Even the security mechanism developed for  securing
> the vehicle ITS station adopts an approach of pseudonym,  i.e.,
> certificate not including any identical information of vehicle  and
> vehicle's owner and use in a given short time.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> The  host can provide such an id in DHCP
> > request message.
> >
> >  Regards,
> >
> > Behcet
> >
> >> Dear  all,
> >>
> >> I fail to see why a VIN would be mapped to an IPv6  address as  much as I 
>fail
> >>to see why a passport number would be  mapped to an IPv6 number.  As said by
> >>Scott, the purpose of the IP  address is to forward packets to the 
> destination.
> >>
> >> Such  an idea is going against location privacy. To address  the  location
> >>privacy issue related to the ID of the vehicle used at the   networking 
>layer,
> >>the Car-to-Car Communication Consortium propose to  use  pseudonyms; when it 
>goes
> >>to IPv6 communications (all  communications are not  IP-based) this pseudonym 
>is
> >>used to configure  an IPv6 address, i.e. a transient  address (you can check 
>the
> >>work of  the SeVeCom project). In the meantime, the  vehicle also has a  
>permanent
> >>address (indeed, prefix) as which the vehicle is  reachable  (using NEMO). Up 
>to
> >>now, there is no one in any of the  standardisation  or consortium I know 
>(ETSI
> >>TC ITS, ISO TC204, ISO  TC22, CEN TC278, Car2Car  Communication Consortium) 
>who
> >>is thinking  about mapping a vehicle ID to the IPv6  address.
> >>
> >> So, I'm  afraid this idea is going  nowhere.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>  Thierry Ernst.
> >>
> >> On 31/03/11 10:40, Scott Brim   wrote:
> >> > Hello Radek.
> >> >
> >> > I have  privacy concerns, because  the VIN is permanent for the vehicle.
> >>  >   I suspect there is a good  chance that the vehicle's IP address  will
> >> > not be used just for  diagnostics, but also for general  purpose
> >> > connections to the Internet  (for example fetching a  movie for the
> >> > children).  If an IP address  is based on VIN,  then it will never
> >> > change, ever.  It will be  possible for  observers to build up
> >> > information about what the vehicle's   users like to connect to.
> >> >
> >> > Also, if you are a  diagnostic center  and you receive packets from an
> >> > IP address  claiming to have a particular  VIN number, how do you
> >> >  authenticate it?  How do you know that is  really the vehicle it  claims
> >> > to be?  You will need application  layer authentication  in any case.
> >> >
> >> > I believe it would be much   better to decouple "vehicle identification"
> >> > from "IP layer  location"  (the IP address).  These tokens have
> >> > different  purposes.  The  vehicle identification is for use with
> >> > database  applications and  diagnostic applications, while the IP
> >> > address  is for IP forwarding to  know how to reach the vehicle.  You
> >> >  could possibly allow the  vehicle to connect to the network and get  any
> >> > IP address -- any address  at all -- and then connect to  the diagnostic
> >> > center and tell you its VIN  and authenticate,  all in a higher layer
> >> > protocol.
> >> >
> >>  >  2011/3/30 Radek Wróbel<radoslaw.wrobel@pwr.wroc.pl>;:
> >>  >>  Dear 6man!
> >> >> My name is Radek Wrobel, I'm writing  from Poland (I'm  working in 
>Wroclaw
> >> >> University of  Technology, Division of Car  Vehicles and Combustion
> >> >>  Engines). With this idea I wrote to IANA and  Leo Vegoda redirected me  
>to
> >> >> you.
> >> >> Vehicle / mechanic  engineers  are working on a new On Board Diagnosis
> >> >> standard for   vehicles 
>(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics).
> >>  >> Today  EOBDv1 can diagnose (quasi online) 849 failures. One of  most
> >>important
> >> >> advantage of EOBDv2 (but not only  it) will be constant,  real time
> >> >> communication with  service. The best way of them will be  indyvidual 
>number
> >> >>  for every car vehicles in the world. This number  ought to cooporate  
>with
> >> >> global networking - TCP/IP (IPv6). All cars  have  indyvidual number - 
>VIN
> >> >> (17 characters which indicates on a   country of production  and mark of 
>the
> >> >> car: digits and  letters  A-X). Maybe there is time when someone must 
>think
> >> >>  about conversion  VIN to IPv6 (like it's in local IPv4)? I've a few  
>ideas
> >> >> about it and  of course I can share them if you will  be intersting in.
> >> >> Also we  cooperate with VW and Toyota. I  think they will be interesting
> >>about
> >> >>  it  too.
> >> >> Best regards, Radek Wrobel.
> >> >>   +48660406004
> >> >>
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> 
> 
> -- 
> IMARA Team, INRIA, France.
> Jong-Hyouk Lee.
> 
> #email: jonghyouk (at)  gmail (dot) com || jong-hyouk.lee (at) inria (dot) fr
> #webpage: https://sites.google.com/site/hurryon/
>