Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.

Scott Brim <> Thu, 31 March 2011 08:38 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0AF3A6B14 for <>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:38:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -104.434
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.434 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.865, BAYES_00=-2.599, GB_I_LETTER=-2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P33hKX0OQB4z for <>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from ( []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3E383A6AFA for <>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:38:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by iye19 with SMTP id 19so2474533iye.31 for <>; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oWlvoHD3L8NNL7KOKazHo66xrJnT8HnUt/DehYwsONE=; b=mGaZBqBTOGg2Twri1/HSVavg4GmH7/HKeMbcbfSDuSXWmwpk7pXrGcKQFnGcX43nQ+ TFFruvX3Nh95FnNyoq1EVc4JpDqjj4iDoGDesSck37RUW0dJBilUiD8iFQxje3xQyOle RgmM7KDpi2iga2HJXmsTn+ELJC3oqZ8lplEfw=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=tQaR05JP0Dnlf0FjSLo7EcNvIF97kxvn+unmFRC0sjadQi9yHWXD9V2MRdeJ1LoLVc tRPlo8IXiZTHpO14opazHXXKcEYJS6Z3sPQF2Pv2tXduPZI5RK5DTAy6JCQzrPzBHoPk I5cEVC05NZOfCpeS+D+vbuoXIT6feyoQtIxtw=
Received: by with SMTP id a8mr2670303ict.415.1301560832103; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:40:32 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by with HTTP; Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:40:12 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <5C4A2B87ED124653A9BDEDAC14D6F2C8@sparrow>
References: <5C4A2B87ED124653A9BDEDAC14D6F2C8@sparrow>
From: Scott Brim <>
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:40:12 +0200
Message-ID: <>
Subject: Re: Vehicle's VIN in IPv6.
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Radek_Wr=F3bel?= <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:38:53 -0000

Hello Radek.

I have privacy concerns, because the VIN is permanent for the vehicle.
 I suspect there is a good chance that the vehicle's IP address will
not be used just for diagnostics, but also for general purpose
connections to the Internet (for example fetching a movie for the
children).  If an IP address is based on VIN, then it will never
change, ever.  It will be possible for observers to build up
information about what the vehicle's users like to connect to.

Also, if you are a diagnostic center and you receive packets from an
IP address claiming to have a particular VIN number, how do you
authenticate it?  How do you know that is really the vehicle it claims
to be?  You will need application layer authentication in any case.

I believe it would be much better to decouple "vehicle identification"
from "IP layer location" (the IP address).  These tokens have
different purposes.  The vehicle identification is for use with
database applications and diagnostic applications, while the IP
address is for IP forwarding to know how to reach the vehicle.  You
could possibly allow the vehicle to connect to the network and get any
IP address -- any address at all -- and then connect to the diagnostic
center and tell you its VIN and authenticate, all in a higher layer

2011/3/30 Radek Wróbel <>;:
> Dear 6man!
> My name is Radek Wrobel, I'm writing from Poland (I'm working in Wroclaw
> University of Technology, Division of Car Vehicles and Combustion
> Engines). With this idea I wrote to IANA and Leo Vegoda redirected me to
> you.
> Vehicle / mechanic engineers are working on a new On Board Diagnosis
> standard for vehicles (
> Today EOBDv1 can diagnose (quasi online) 849 failures. One of most important
> advantage of EOBDv2 (but not only it) will be constant, real time
> communication with service. The best way of them will be indyvidual number
> for every car vehicles in the world. This number ought to cooporate with
> global networking - TCP/IP (IPv6). All cars have indyvidual number - VIN
> (17 characters which indicates on a country of production  and mark of the
> car: digits and letters A-X). Maybe there is time when someone must think
> about conversion VIN to IPv6 (like it's in local IPv4)? I've a few ideas
> about it and of course I can share them if you will be intersting in.
> Also we cooperate with VW and Toyota. I think they will be interesting about
> it too.
> Best regards, Radek Wrobel.
> +48660406004
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> Administrative Requests:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------