RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Sat, 17 October 2020 16:01 UTC

Return-Path: <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B9F13A0EB8; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.097
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=boeing.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yhuRs5Jn33DY; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.144.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C40123A0EB6; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id 09HG1Aex024289; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 12:01:11 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=boeing.com; s=boeing-s1912; t=1602950471; bh=6LS0Cj9DwP8uRvr3sx1IejtDFV0cTAjY7iZebU6vPVg=; h=From:To:CC:Subject:Date:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=WaFPj9O4zhrf13rg01gXu/bsSUO/Yr5oCA4bbKTXQB3TSh38pPdGCOUnVTHMxbmCG JXi5s1eSnwyTGU4Z4sGtg70B6RnDZ9HPbXIPvrMVcnMCeCaTBsUn7W+ZzBJUdKo7EQ 5S3RqmzWEC31w7N7Pt9m2I58QegtMB2mHUI4udjxSspLWbelHCQgVhrSU/FRcbsXAl ZbNqGWlG2RdXsAN1vWXZKUny5A6ijtdjb05RgX/846Ug/ywf7cSYs1sJoEkre/YQNd 8VCyAc/UT2C1BdyXSXZRB3kSwljzAUGZSEp1KXcuUx7J3jJLsaHbAkITFKTsXmqay7 DW2OI04SAn4YA==
Received: from XCH16-01-10.nos.boeing.com (xch16-01-10.nos.boeing.com [144.115.66.5]) by clt-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/8.15.2/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTPS id 09HG13Qj023898 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 17 Oct 2020 12:01:03 -0400
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.112) by XCH16-01-10.nos.boeing.com (144.115.66.5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.1.2044.4; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:01:01 -0700
Received: from XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5]) by XCH16-07-10.nos.boeing.com ([fe80::1522:f068:5766:53b5%2]) with mapi id 15.01.2044.004; Sat, 17 Oct 2020 09:01:01 -0700
From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Manfredi (US), Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>
CC: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>, =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ole_Tr=F8an?= <otroan@employees.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Index: AQHWpJ61lTbGp5dyxUO9c4fancNpXg==
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 16:01:01 +0000
Message-ID: <49d4846dc5cf43e8921fe02d63810437@boeing.com>
References: <81c2b0adda744231ae790408dcb594a2@boeing.com> <C38A7B84-6451-42C3-925D-09BEDBA319AD@employees.org> <053deb1bf9c149df98ad3e75d60bfe93@boeing.com> <312E6A75-75D7-409D-85FB-6ACCBA2474F3@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <312E6A75-75D7-409D-85FB-6ACCBA2474F3@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6]
x-tm-snts-smtp: 7790584A1B7F227CB3C92D35745A7403D7255EA15AB77FD44AC0EBA3ED480C5F2000:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/hR5EBqPWZmavLhCj01S0ru5l9dc>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2020 16:01:14 -0000

Bob, it looks like our notes crossed at approximately the same time, but I would say
the same thing to you that I just said to Bert - we will want all four of LLAs (for the
control plane), SLAs (for the OAL) and ULAs/GUAs (for end-system addressing).

About your scale calculations, there will be far more terrestrial vehicles, urban
air mobility vehicles, drones, pedestrians etc. than there are the number of
aircraft currently worldwide. But, scale is just one dimension of the problem
space and the more important dimension is *function*.

Thanks - Fred

> -----Original Message-----
> From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bob Hinden
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2020 8:52 AM
> To: Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com>
> Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>rg>; Ole Trøan <otroan@employees.org>rg>; Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>om>; atn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
> 
> Bert,
> 
> > On Oct 16, 2020, at 2:47 PM, Manfredi (US), Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@boeing.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ole Troan
> >
> >> I would challenge you to make OMNI entirely free from semantic addresses. That would also help the working group understand
> what benefits semantic addresses bring to OMNI. And what the tradeoffs would be.
> >
> > I think it's a matter of speed and simplicity, no? You avoid that extra protocol, to assign addresses. Same idea as embedding the MAC
> into the IPv6 address. But it's true that the IETF likes to stay away from semantic addresses.
> >
> > The path of least resistance, from all the back and forth, as of now, seems to be to either use ULAs, or to request a new /10 for this
> new purpose.
> 
> I did some searching, found that there are currently about 500K aircraft of all types (general aviation, commercial, military, etc.).
> Allocating a /10 seems excessive to me for this even with a lot of growth.
> 
> Using ULAs would be fine.   This might even be a good justification to use the other half of the ULA space as I suspect the ICAO could
> be an allocation authority.
> 
> Bob
> 
>