Re: Non-Last Small IPv6 Fragments

Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Mon, 14 January 2019 06:10 UTC

Return-Path: <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E186130F4F for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:10:52 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.498
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.999, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W90YN8IEU8f8 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ot1-x330.google.com (mail-ot1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF46012008A for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-ot1-x330.google.com with SMTP id n8so18366194otl.6 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:10:50 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=6Ta5xwJDn7IUuddgQlU2rgf1I6mRE2yUXuxR+9JSTqA=; b=dxPitBM4UESBZulGoJ9ENGGV1VVmnejQ/hbFPDGdiZMJCWE4LtBcD06J+yNaf7DwRA GFLHJagYMVn+0d2w0JhrroTSPYkAqb/pEAoam677hYkX7NniUqkRLYgBAhG///yc7Lyp IAAP2Ao6P/Tt3uRVgpsTDLId0+MGUo9iC6HsN3yZe0Zhe7mRX5AmewuJ9fttCwPDLxi+ Ywa6vEeIlIRQl7zEsQ8kp3UDSLxR9LNtO/Xi0XaOSxNeFWKePBOPoGkjl1bkqsHwDLn5 ZpYJtw8153VprztAJZP7AmKEmcxm36Ihrh0qCxo58/XRRGXG6CMZnhmpq4h+liCqUZdp HI1w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=6Ta5xwJDn7IUuddgQlU2rgf1I6mRE2yUXuxR+9JSTqA=; b=F35qWhKpH72B4Dl6KavKvZHsYceI3kUGsh6thG9MAlpdXFwe654buXqy989i56BSBi 2XZ+EQCHevQibQIKGAXazBWcUaz+9HjGkMGPSznr5A3zNKw3woHgIqRaCbq02pBPZc4h zLHurQfLjRj51x+NsOM8OJv4TR3aoqBrhb+16k6C3tzJI4zdYvyF603s3fGTCwHCvnRM v9mRtNqprpokFiP91w6srf2//k9aa2laNg2qZmJuiW2Jc6yPzQp8LZGDbaa7KSDocHfF W4TpFlnmJmOS8Vgllf5pocN4DbTJJqGLTUTOkSTxgP0cetS9/fHi9+4803goLKHa91RM KSdg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfDxEWZwVYZg0s+Cz3qVZiq4/x8SkViQjhGClQyT0y6SD/hFXJM 4wD6RU3l3qbk5D6wnmkWpIq0KUrIzND2IYQ0SAE=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN6U8aWF6aiLAreD09zQFEuoF0mB9r8ufYsP9Y5sQg/aAarw9R/7u2bmSf01noDxnmUIYX7APBk6+mwlqyDaKEA=
X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7059:: with SMTP id x25mr16683417otj.35.1547446249876; Sun, 13 Jan 2019 22:10:49 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAOSSMjV0Vazum5OKztWhAhJrjLjXc5w5YGxdzHgbzi7YVSk7rg@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau1HwG5RndacpSA+si+zKuTdpSvA=QA1A11A==rMNe=4+w@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S35KNhV2gFp9OdU+M1zy5WUuEAEvXkDXNDWWxi7uQ4e_cw@mail.gmail.com> <CAN-Dau0rTdiiF2SjByxcMG6nhPCEjUH2pYBCOeK_FSGJ_ucDQw@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S34AyV9OpvnjQhQc56n5vfeVgU5Zd3kheP0g+XvsMbBV9g@mail.gmail.com> <1b2e318e-1a9f-bb5d-75a5-04444c42ef20@si6networks.com> <CALx6S37TJr++fC=pVoeS=mrO1fHc4gL_Wtu-XkVTswzs2XxXCA@mail.gmail.com> <CALx6S36V7vrVyoTP0G6+S5XeFNB3KWS5UaNnVi20xogRERdCfg@mail.gmail.com> <973A1649-55F6-4D97-A97F-CEF555A4D397@employees.org> <CALx6S34YbBe8xBod3VsWVO33TpZcdxh2uV1vaO8Z_NKnVXp66g@mail.gmail.com> <A3C3F9C0-0A07-41AF-9671-B9E486CB8246@employees.org> <AEA47E27-C0CB-4ABE-8ADE-51E9D599EF8F@gmail.com> <6aae7888-46a4-342d-1d76-10f8b50cebc4@gmail.com> <EC9CC5FE-5215-4105-8A34-B3F123D574B9@employees.org> <4c56f504-7cd7-6323-b14a-d34050d13f4e@foobar.org> <9E6D4A6E-8ABA-4BAB-BEC5-969078323C96@employees.org> <CAAedzxpdF+yhBXfnwUcaQb-HkgdaqXRU3L+S7v8sS1F0OkwM9A@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAAedzxpdF+yhBXfnwUcaQb-HkgdaqXRU3L+S7v8sS1F0OkwM9A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 17:10:37 +1100
Message-ID: <CAO42Z2zSBtBfB=GgRKnTdjbsZNTV_eJ2xdvADqQMry+SJ6vRUA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-Last Small IPv6 Fragments
To: Erik Kline <ek@loon.co>
Cc: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000871a9057f64e858"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/iMQZBIG0MSjoAflZ2AunH8SpL6Q>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 06:10:52 -0000

On Mon., 14 Jan. 2019, 16:19 Erik Kline <ek@loon.co wrote:

>
>> > Ole Troan wrote on 13/01/2019 20:03:
>> >> Let’s fix path MTU discovery. There’s no fix for fragmentation.
>> >
>> > pmtu discovery is hard because it needs a way for an intermediate node
>> to be able to signal a transmitting node to dynamically drop the MTU if
>> network conditions change.  The only way to reliably work around this is to
>> transmit at 1280 and claim implementation / operational breakage if this
>> cannot get through.  This, however, robs the host devices of the ability to
>> use higher MTUs.
>>
>> “Fix” as in something different than rfc8201.
>>
>
> How about a version of the fragment header that:
>
>     (a) *always* has the L4 header (or a configurable number of bytes) in
> every non-first fragment
>
> This could be documented on a per-L4+ basis how much needs to be included,
> i.e. we could have one doc for UDP and (say) a separate doc for information
> QUIC would need on a per-fragment basis.
>


"Transport Options for UDP"

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-tsvwg-udp-options-05.txt


"5.6. Maximum Segment Size (MSS)...............................13
      5.7. Fragmentation (FRAG).....................................14"



> This increases the overhead in a given fragment, but also helps to ensure
> that (eventually) intermediate systems can examine this field and
> preemptively make a drop/no-drop decision.
>
>     (b) state clearly that every non-last packet must contain
> $CONSENSUS_MINIMUM_BYTES of actual fragment payload
>
> No opinion on the exact value.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>