problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 18 November 2017 19:59 UTC
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Subject: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt]
To: ipv6@ietf.org
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From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 08:59:22 +1300
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Regards Brian Carpenter On 19/11/2017 03:39, Jen Linkova wrote: > Hi Bob, > > To be honest I'm not convinced that there is a real problem to be solved.. > The draft says > > 'A mechanism is needed to inform hosts that there is no IPv4 support > and that they should turn off IPv4.' > and it would be great to have more detailed problem statement IMHO... Indeed. If there is no serious problem, don't fix. What I seemed to hear in Singapore was that people weren't happy with just ignoring the small amount of residual IPv4 traffic on ietf-nat64 (about 1% in the measurement by Bob Hinden). However, from what I saw, most of it is layer 2 broadcast traffic, which is more of a burden for the infrastructure. We need to decide whether we care. (As to whether this belongs in 6man or sunset4, that's a secondary question. As for the other comments on this thread, I am too jet lagged to respond right now... later.) Brian > > It looks to me that when you are saying 'there is no IPv4 support on a > link' you mean 'a router does not provide IPv4 connectivity'. However > it still might be > IPv4 connectivity within the given broadcast domain and the router has > nothing to do with it. > > If the problem is 'IPv4 broadcast noise on the link' then it should be > solved on L2 level and the network should not switch ethertype 0x0800. > If the problem is 'all those noisy DHCPv4 requests the first-hop > router has to drop because DHCP relay is not configured' then the > router interface should not accept IPv4 packets at all, problem > solved. > > Also it's not clear what a host is supposed to do if it'd been > receiving RAs with that flag set 0 and at some point subsequent RAs > started to arrive with that bit set to 1... > Shall the host stop all IPv4 operations attempts? Basically how that > information could be updated? > > > On Fri, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Brian and I took a cut a defining an IPv4 Availability Flag for IPv6 ND >> Router Advertisements. From the Introduction: >> >> Hosts that support IPv4 and IPv6, usually called dual stack hosts, >> need to work on IPv6 only networks. That is, a link where there are >> no IPv4 routers and/or IPv4 services. Monitoring of IPv6-only >> networks, for example at the IETF 100 meeting in Singapore, shows >> that current dual stack hosts will create local auto-configured IPv4 >> addresses and attempt to reach IPv4 services. A mechanism is needed >> to inform hosts that there is no IPv4 support and that they should >> turn off IPv4. >> >> Because there is no IPv4 support on these links, the only way to >> notify the dual stack hosts on the link is to use an IPv6 mechanism. >> An active notification will be much more robust than attempting to >> deduce this state by the lack of IPv4 responses or traffic. >> >> IPv4-only hosts, and dual-stack hosts that do not recognize the new >> flag, will continue to attempt IPv4 operations, in particular IPv4 >> discovery protocols typically sent as link-layer broadcasts. This >> legacy traffic cannot be prevented by any IPv6 mechanism. The value >> of the new flag is limited to dual-stack hosts that recognize it. >> >> We were originally thinking it would be an April 1 submission, but after >> reading the discussion on the IPv6 list, we decided it makes sense as a real >> submission :-) >> >> Please review and comment. >> >> Thanks, >> Bob and Brian >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt >> Date: November 17, 2017 at 2:36:31 PM GMT+8 >> To: "Robert M. Hinden" <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Robert Hinden" >> <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Brian Carpenter" <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Robert M. Hinden and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-hinden-ipv4flag >> Revision: 00 >> Title: IPv6 Router Advertisement IPv4 Availability Flag >> Document date: 2017-11-17 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 5 >> URL: >> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hinden-ipv4flag/ >> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00 >> Htmlized: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hinden-ipv4flag-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document specifies a Router Advertisement Flag to indicate that >> there is no IPv4 service on the advertising router. This document >> updates RFC5175. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list >> ipv6@ietf.org >> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > >
- Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ip… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Fernando Gont
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… David Farmer
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Simon Perreault
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Michael Richardson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Simon Hobson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Erik Kline
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Tim Chown
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Erik Kline
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Jen Linkova
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Fernando Gont
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Fernando Gont
- problem statement [was Re: New Version Notificati… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Christian Huitema
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Simon Hobson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Michael Richardson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Jen Linkova
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alejandro Acosta
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-hinde… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Ole Troan
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Michael Richardson
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Erik Kline
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Nick Hilliard
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Fred Baker
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… David Farmer
- Re: problem statement [was Re: New Version Notifi… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-hinden-ipv… james woodyatt