Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host)
Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Mon, 13 November 2017 19:43 UTC
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From: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 06:43:06 +1100
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Subject: Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host)
To: Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com>
Cc: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>, "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, "v6ops@ietf.org WG" <v6ops@ietf.org>, Fernando Gont <fgont@si6networks.com>
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On 13 November 2017 at 19:00, Lorenzo Colitti <lorenzo@google.com> wrote: > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> It's a fantasy that routers don't fail, or that a single router on a link >> is always enough. >> >> Host connections are supposed to survive transient failures such router >> reloads or switching to a different router that provides equivalent packet >> forwarding service. If a host loses its prefix in this scenario because of >> either of those events, then I don't think this method as currently >> described is robust against a foreseeable failure. >> >> I don't think it is a Best current practice if router redundancy hasn't >> been considered or tested and deployed, and can therefore be documented. I >> see value in the approach because of SLAAC compatibility with hosts however >> I think it is currently half baked. > > > Let me state this again: > > DHCPv6 PD has exactly the same problem. No it doesn't. > As far as I am aware there is no RFC that documents the solutions that are > in use for DHCPv6 PD. DHCPv6 has been designed to avoid having state in intermediary devices by incorporating a relay agent into the architecture, specified in RFC3315. Clients use DUIDs to identify themselves, and the DHCPv6 server associates client attributes with the client's DUID. That is what allows DHCPv6-PD to survive a router/DHCPv6 relay reboot. This draft hasn't been published as an RFC, however it is also considering this issue. "DHCPv6 Relay Agent Assignment Notification (RAAN) Option" https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-dhcpv6-agentopt-delegate-03 A number of vendors seem to have implemented the functional equivalent by looking directly at the ID_PD option when the DHCPv6 reply is sent to the client - search for "DHCPv6 Relay Agent Notification for Prefix Delegation" The alternative is to have a RADIUS server provide the delegated prefix information to a DHCPv6 server running on the router. "RADIUS Delegated-IPv6-Prefix Attribute", RFC4818. Possibly the RADIUS method could be used in this draft's scenario if a layer 2 attribute such as the MAC address or per-client VLAN tags, or 802.1X authentication information, is used to identify the client. If this draft can't document that method because it doesn't exist, then, assuming Comcast is the only deployment of this, it seems Comcast aren't trying to have a prefix assignment survive a router reboot. That's a "flash renumbering" approach, which I don't think is right for IPv6. > This has not stopped the deployment of tens or hundreds of millions of > networks that use DHCPv6 PD. > What was the alternative that didn't have this limitation? There is a big difference between something working and something working well. I worked on the first production deployment of residential broadband IPv6 in Australia in 2010. Going by the beta software we were working with from one of the major BRAS vendors, that was likely one of the earliest in the world. Making it work was the goal. If the goal was to make it work well, we wouldn't have deployed it. (I haven't worked on an IPv6 residential deployment since because of Australia's position of being early in the IPv4 game, and ISP consolidation making IPv4 pools bigger.) Six years later, with much more production IPv6 deployment, new methods and solutions shouldn't be functionally equivalent, they should be functionally superior, because the consequences of failure matter more. > Why are we holding this document up on this? Half baked cakes aren't cakes, even though they may look like them.
- Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-pref… Fernando Gont
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… DY Kim
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Erik Kline
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Erik Kline
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Warren Kumari
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fred Baker
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… joel jaeggli
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Joe Touch
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Warren Kumari
- Re: Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bob Hinden
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bob Hinden
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DaeYoung KIM
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Enno Rey
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Bernie Volz (volz)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fernando Gont
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Victor Kuarsingh
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Michael H Lambert
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Philip Homburg
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Nick Hilliard
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Templin, Fred L
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Mark Smith
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fred Baker
- DHCPv6 PD route injection (was: Re: [v6ops] State… Ole Troan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Ted Lemon
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… james woodyatt
- RE: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Warren Kumari
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Fred Baker
- Re: [v6ops] DHCPv6 PD route injection (was: Re: S… Brzozowski, John
- Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Stateful S… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… DY Kim
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… Erik Nordmark
- Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Statef… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: [v6ops] Stateful SLAAC (draft-ietf-v6ops-uniq… David Farmer
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… james woodyatt
- Re: [v6ops] Upleveling discussion (was Re: Statef… Gert Doering
- Re: Upleveling discussion (was Re: [v6ops] Statef… Fernando Gont