From: "Bonica, Ron" <ronald.bonica@hpe.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0=40gmx.de@dmarc.ietf.org>,
        "xiao.min2@zte.com.cn" <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>
Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Re: [IPv6]ICMP Query and ICMP Query for IOAM
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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2026 15:14:42 +0000
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Sebastian,

Good catch!

We should also mention the other point that you raise in an operational con=
sideration section.

                                                Ron


________________________________
From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0=3D40gmx.de@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2026 5:14 AM
To: xiao.min2@zte.com.cn <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>
Cc: int-area@ietf.org <int-area@ietf.org>; ipv6@ietf.org <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: [Int-area] Re: [IPv6]ICMP Query and ICMP Query for IOAM

Hi,

quick note:

The draft states:
To prevent denial of service attacks, the ICMP Query Response message MUST =
NOT be longer than the corresponding ICMP Query Request message.

IMHO this reasonable requirement does prevent amplification more than it in=
hibits denial of service attacks... How well this lends itself to denial of=
 service attacks (on the queried host), IMHO, depends more on how costly th=
e requested pieces of information are to gather... and since the draft refe=
rs to another (not yet written?) draft for the actual queries this is hard =
to assess.
For using this to create reflection attacks on other hosts this size limit =
really also only affects the effective amplification when using that attack=
 vector, but if an attacker commands enough nodes no amplification is requi=
red to create a denial of service attack. So I would just rephrase that sen=
tence from "To prevent denial of service attacks,..." to "To remove to pote=
ntial of abusing this as a means of attack amplification,..."

Regards
        Sebastian




> On 25. Feb 2026, at 09:10, xiao.min2@zte.com.cn wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> A new document draft-xbm-intarea-icmp-query-00 has been submitted. This d=
raft introduces two new ICMP messages (ICMP Query Request/Response) for the=
 purpose of IP node information query.
> After that, draft-ietf-6man-icmpv6-conf-state was updated and its basis w=
as changed from RFC 4620 to draft-xbm-intarea-icmp-query.
> Links for the two drafts are as below.
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-x=
bm-intarea-icmp-query-00__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO=
0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL865Sw5Z$  https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-icmpv6-ioa=
m-conf-state-10__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0RuCR00J_=
4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL07ovgvJ$
> Looking forward to your review and comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Xiao Min
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> List Info: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3=
/lists/ipv6@ietf.org/__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0Ru=
CR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL6vA_2y6$
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
Sebastian,</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
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<br>
</div>
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Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
Good catch!</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
We should also mention the other point that you raise in an operational con=
sideration section.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ron</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, =
Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" clas=
s=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<b>From:</b>&nbsp;Sebastian Moeller &lt;moeller0=3D40gmx.de@dmarc.ietf.org&=
gt;<br>
<b>Sent:</b>&nbsp;Wednesday, February 25, 2026 5:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b>&nbsp;xiao.min2@zte.com.cn &lt;xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b>&nbsp;int-area@ietf.org &lt;int-area@ietf.org&gt;; ipv6@ietf.org =
&lt;ipv6@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;[Int-area] Re: [IPv6]ICMP Query and ICMP Query for IOA=
M </div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size=
: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 11pt;">Hi,<br>
<br>
quick note:<br>
<br>
The draft states:<br>
To prevent denial of service attacks, the ICMP Query Response message MUST =
NOT be longer than the corresponding ICMP Query Request message.<br>
<br>
IMHO this reasonable requirement does prevent amplification more than it in=
hibits denial of service attacks... How well this lends itself to denial of=
 service attacks (on the queried host), IMHO, depends more on how costly th=
e requested pieces of information
 are to gather... and since the draft refers to another (not yet written?) =
draft for the actual queries this is hard to assess.<br>
For using this to create reflection attacks on other hosts this size limit =
really also only affects the effective amplification when using that attack=
 vector, but if an attacker commands enough nodes no amplification is requi=
red to create a denial of service
 attack. So I would just rephrase that sentence from &quot;To prevent denia=
l of service attacks,...&quot; to &quot;To remove to potential of abusing t=
his as a means of attack amplification,...&quot;<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sebastian<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; On 25. Feb 2026, at 09:10, xiao.min2@zte.com.cn wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Dear all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; A new document draft-xbm-intarea-icmp-query-00 has been submitted. Thi=
s draft introduces two new ICMP messages (ICMP Query Request/Response) for =
the purpose of IP node information query.<br>
&gt; After that, draft-ietf-6man-icmpv6-conf-state was updated and its basi=
s was changed from RFC 4620 to draft-xbm-intarea-icmp-query.<br>
&gt; Links for the two drafts are as below.<br>
&gt; <a data-auth=3D"NotApplicable" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"OWAaffd3b5a=
-9b9f-d430-a58c-f22b0333042c" href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xbm-intarea-icmp-query-00__;!!NpxR!j6oKY=
NANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93Zz=
wanJieknL865Sw5Z$">
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xbm=
-intarea-icmp-query-00__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0R=
uCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL865Sw5Z$</a>&nbsp;
<a data-auth=3D"NotApplicable" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"OWAb0549d39-5841=
-be65-59d5-30a3fbbf1741" href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-icmpv6-ioam-conf-state-10__;!!NpxR!=
j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrt=
j93ZzwanJieknL07ovgvJ$">
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-iet=
f-6man-icmpv6-ioam-conf-state-10__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4E=
RJsioDhO0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL07ovgvJ$</a>&nbsp;<=
br>
&gt; Looking forward to your review and comments.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt; Xiao Min<br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------<b=
r>
&gt; IETF IPv6 working group mailing list<br>
&gt; ipv6@ietf.org<br>
&gt; List Info: <a data-auth=3D"NotApplicable" class=3D"OWAAutoLink" id=3D"=
OWAdc73dd24-c2e6-3f33-2e36-ee8a27ca6cb2" href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/=
__https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/ipv6@ietf.org/__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNAN=
TA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93Zzwan=
JieknL6vA_2y6$">
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailman3.ietf.org/mailman3/lists/ipv6@i=
etf.org/__;!!NpxR!j6oKYNANTA9WORuGLBq22srq3D5NQDh4ERJsioDhO0RuCR00J_4tAZRm-=
FwqH5LGTMGFtsecWrtj93ZzwanJieknL6vA_2y6$</a><br>
&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------------<b=
r>
<br>
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