RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6"
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Tue, 20 October 2020 11:54 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>, "sarikaya@ieee.org" <sarikaya@ieee.org>
CC: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6"
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6"
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Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 11:54:28 +0000
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Alex, > Another device is Gateworks' current modem for Iridium, the "GW16130 > Mini-PCIe Satellite Modem - Datasheet". It is at 1.6GHz (not 12GHz). > That mentions 'UART' which again is an 'encoder' to me. Among the > features it says 'Supports E-mail messages or HTTP POST'. That means it > might support IP. It also says 'Max Message payload: 340 bytes upload, > 270 bytes download'. That means if one wants to put IPv6 minimum MTU > 1280 bytes then one might need to implement IPv6 Fragmentation extension > headers. That is what the OMNI Adaptation Layer (OAL) does (and/or the link could use link-specific segmentation and reassembly). Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 3:58 AM > To: sarikaya@ieee.org > Cc: 6man WG <ipv6@ietf.org> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" > > This message was sent from outside of Boeing. Please do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and > know that the content is safe. > > > > > Le 19/10/2020 à 21:17, Behcet Sarikaya a écrit : > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 11:12 AM Alexandre Petrescu > > <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com <mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Le 19/10/2020 à 17:58, Behcet Sarikaya a écrit : > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 10:20 AM Templin (US), Fred L > > > <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > > <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Seems like an “IPv6-over-foo” document might be in order; anyone care > > > to____ > > > > > > join me on that?____ > > > > > > __ > > > > > > > > > IPv6-over-foo on Starlink section would look like > > > > > > TBD until more is revealed > > > > One in USA could look at the regulator's public database and find which > > frequency channel is allocated for Tesla for Starlink. > > > > > > > > It is 12GHz > > > > From that, one > > could find which encoders are available on that frequency. From that > > one could find which protocols are on it. It makes for a 'foo' in 'IPv6 > > over foo'. The link layer. > > > > > > I don't know how to do these? > > One would ask the ATN email list of IETF, to find which protocol runs on > Starlink satellite links? Or maybe which protocol runs on typical cheap > data on satellite links? Because there was already a draft posted there > about links for aeronautics draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-04 > One would also ask the email list of the DRIP WG of IETF because that > involves drones around air traffic control, which might depend > peripherally on satellite data links. > > One would check the user guides of devices implementing data > communications on satellite links. It's true that the name of a device > is somehow difficult to find. > > An old example is Q4000 made by Quake Global. It is an old device that > I studied about 10 years ago. It uses RS-232 over the satellite link. > That would be the 'encoder'. That means one could put Serial Line > Internet Protocol (SLIP) on it. IPv6 works ok over SLIP, even though > there is no RFC for it. One might take advantage of the situation to > write one. The user manual of that device is at > https://fccid.io/PB596XXCS/User-Manual/Datasheet-Q4000-1626630 > > Another device is Gateworks' current modem for Iridium, the "GW16130 > Mini-PCIe Satellite Modem - Datasheet". It is at 1.6GHz (not 12GHz). > That mentions 'UART' which again is an 'encoder' to me. Among the > features it says 'Supports E-mail messages or HTTP POST'. That means it > might support IP. It also says 'Max Message payload: 340 bytes upload, > 270 bytes download'. That means if one wants to put IPv6 minimum MTU > 1280 bytes then one might need to implement IPv6 Fragmentation extension > headers. > > During these searches I found that maybe SpaceX launched devices for > Iridium in the past, so it might be that current Starlink are acting a > little bit like Iridium, or so. > > But it is all speculations. > > Alex > > > > > Behcet > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > Behcet > > > > > > __ > > > > > > Fred____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > *From:*Behcet Sarikaya [mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com > > <mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com> > > > <mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com <mailto:sarikaya2012@gmail.com>>] > > *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2020 > > > 8:14 AM *To:* Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca > > <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca> > > > <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca>>>; 6man WG > > <ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > > > <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>> *Cc:* Templin > > (US), Fred L > > > <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> > > <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com <mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>> > > > *Subject:* Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6"____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > Thanks Michael, I'd like to know as much as possible how IPv6 works > > > in Starlink.____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > Behcet____ > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 3:47 PM Michael Richardson > > <mcr@sandelman.ca <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca> > > > <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca>>> wrote:____ > > > > > > Anyone read anything more specific about what Starlink is doing that > > > is "simpler than IPv6"? > > > > > > I'd sure like to know that it permits end-terminal to end-terminal > > > communicatons without a trip through a data center. > > > > > > -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 > > > mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works > > > | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca > > <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca> <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca > > <mailto:mcr@sandelman.ca>> > > > http://www.sandelman.ca/ <http://www.sandelman.ca/> > > <http://www.sandelman.ca/ <http://www.sandelman.ca/>> | ruby on > > > rails [ > > > > > > > > > ____ > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org > > <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> Administrative > > > Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > > ipv6@ietf.org <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> > > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > --------------------------------------------------------------------
- Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Fred Baker
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Fernando Gont
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Fernando Gont
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Ted Hardie
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Ole Troan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Michael Richardson
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Philip Homburg
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Michael Richardson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu