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Re: New Version Notification for draft-troan-6man-universal-ra-option-03.txt

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 09 October 2020 05:05 UTC

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Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-troan-6man-universal-ra-option-03.txt
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, ipv6@ietf.org
References: <CANMZLAb3FdZRcpzctXFE_coUQHKT0aTRn6ymkZQjT-KGuwNRYg@mail.gmail.com> <0CC85EA5-8A06-48E9-AE85-70F91A9AE9BC@fugue.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ab73890-62e3-8078-c55e-a4b896469082@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2020 18:04:56 +1300
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On 09-Oct-20 15:10, Ted Lemon wrote:
> Brian, that’s what I’m saying is a problem. You don’t want self describing encodings when the data format is required to be fixed: that just adds an extra step. 

Why is it required to be fixed? That exactly what Ole's proposal changes.

> That said, Ole’s point that we don’t have a CDDL-to-tlv compiler is somewhat compelling.

I haven't at all looked into whether CDDL has value for describing TLV formats. But the whole business of a CDDL-driven message parser is quite complex and it doesn't get you away from what Bernie said:

>> Knowing what the data types are doesn’t tell one how to use the data.

Even the best syntax driven parser in the world has problems with that. The question is really what's the best way to get to the point where you have to decide how to use the data.

I don't think Ole is suggesting that his way is the only way to do that.

    Brian 
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2020, at 21:02, Brian Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> The big difference is that CBOR items are self-describing and TLVs are not.
>>
>> Regards
>>     Brian
>>     (via tiny screen & keyboard)
>>
>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 11:32 Ole Troan, <otroan@employees.org <mailto:otroan@employees.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>     On 9 Oct 2020, at 00:19, Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com <mailto:mellon@fugue.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     On Oct 8, 2020, at 6:17 PM, Ole Troan <otroan@employees.org <mailto:otroan@employees.org>> wrote:
>>>>     Which is why the objects are described in CDDL. 
>>>
>>>     That’s lovely, but then why not just compile the CDDL into a TLV parser?
>>
>>     The idea here is to allow users of the option to use existing tools and libraries. Shouldn’t we all be tired of hand crafting C code to parse packets by now?
>>
>>     If you want to build a toolset around a modeling language and TLV representations to compete with CDDL, CBOR, JSON feel free. But I don’t think you should expect us to wait for you. :-)
>>
>>     Ole
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