RE: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt> (Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification) to Internet Standard
Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com> Tue, 14 February 2017 13:37 UTC
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From: Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt> (Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification) to Internet Standard
Thread-Topic: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt> (Internet Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification) to Internet Standard
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Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 13:37:10 +0000
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Hi Mark, I certainly agree that hop-by-hop insertion/modification introduces potential security vulnerabilities. Therefore, as I pointed out below, I would recommend to tackle this by defining something along the lines of “Hop-by-hop extensions can be inserted/removed/modified/processed by intermediate nodes *if* [……..] and the possible consequences are [……..]” For example, hop-by-hop handling can be restricted only to a single administrative domain, or only to tunnels (as in the zero checksum case). Regards, Tal. >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com] >Sent: Monday, February 13, 2017 6:07 PM >To: Tal Mizrahi >Cc: 6man@ietf.org; IETF Discussion list; draft-ietf-6man- >rfc2460bis@tools.ietf.org; 6man-chairs@ietf.org >Subject: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt> (Internet >Protocol, Version 6 (IPv6) Specification) to Internet Standard > >External Email > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Hi, > > > >On 14 February 2017 at 00:43, Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> >> >> Good discussion regarding the text about the hop-by-hop extension. >> >> >> >> In my opinion there is a valid use case for intermediate nodes that >> insert/remove/modify/process hop-by-hop extensions. Examples: IOAM, INT. >> >> Since there is a use case, I believe we need explicit text about >> intermediate handling of hop-by-hop extensions. >> > > >Imagine you sent a letter through the postal system, and the postal system >wanted to add information to that letter, that is then to be removed before the >letter arrives at its final destination. > >The postal system have at least two choices as to how to add that information. >They could: > >(a) unstick your envelope's seal, insert the information, reseal the envelope so >well you can't tell and send it on its way, some how flagging to a destination >device within the postal system that this specific envelop needs to be openned, a >specific page removed, and then resealed. > >(b) take a new envelope with new internal postal system source and destination >address information, insert your letter without touching it in addition to the new >information, and then sending it on its way. > >Imagine that the information to be added by the postal system is printed on the >same type of paper and is written in the same font as you've chosen to use to >write your letter. > >Have a think about these two methods, what could fail with each of them, and >what the consequences may be if any of those failures occur. >Have a think of the benefits of each method, and whether they're worth it >compared to the failure mode costs and consequences for the method. > >> >> >> This [somewhat] reminds me of the discussion a few years ago about the >> IPv6/UDP zero checksum. The WG ended up defining that “Zero checksum >> is permitted in IPv6/UDP *if* [……..] and the possible consequences are [……..]”. >> >> > >That is a far more trivial change to the packet - it is allowing a value in an existing >field that was formerly prohibited, and nodes that did not understand that value >would drop the packet because that is what they had been specified to do if they >received this prohibited value. In other words, existing implementations ' >behaviour when this formerly unexpected value was encountered had already >been specified and deployed. > > >> >> I would argue that regarding hop-by-hop extension handling we also >> need to define that “Hop-by-hop extensions can be >> inserted/removed/modified/processed by intermediate nodes *if* [……..] >> and the possible consequences are [……..]”. >> > >Some things that are possible to do in theory shouldn't be done in practice, >because the consequences when their implementations fail can be severe and >outweigh the benefits. > >In theory, inserted EHs will be removed 100% of the time. In practice they won't >be, because implementations can have bugs and they can also fail in unexpected >ways e.g., hardware faults. > >Regards, >Mark.
- Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt> (I… The IESG
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Stefano Previdi (sprevidi)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… C. M. Heard
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… 神明達哉
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Pete Resnick
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Enno Rey
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… otroan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Philip Homburg
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… 神明達哉
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Ted Lemon
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Randy Bush
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Scott Bradner
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Suresh Krishnan
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Eric Vyncke (evyncke)
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Leddy, John
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Tal Mizrahi
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… t.petch
- RE: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460… Tal Mizrahi
- RE: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460… David Mozes
- Re: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [EXT] Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460… Mark Smith
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Sander Steffann
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Fernando Gont
- Address types [was: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-r… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-6man-rfc2460bis-08.txt… Erik Kline