Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 ULA registry]
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Mon, 14 December 2020 00:20 UTC
Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 847F73A08EB for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.199
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2J3As96gBx6g for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pl1-x643.google.com (mail-pl1-x643.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::643]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EFF13A08D9 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pl1-x643.google.com with SMTP id v3so7683215plz.13 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:22 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q9hf42G/MW2zi0MrvF+V/Db3qlp0jtXX3tB9qG6zPWU=; b=KDTCsaQ9I6OXkmfD3pdsWQPG4df/cHwuGSe/1KwXIl6BTKdYZBVVB5KYEtZYfIgUhB K4X7CD5T911Vm1ckRuxE7tT0dN2Gnw+NUIeR+5AK4G2pu1/2V23tw3br1VhI1zdnuzKS aEusLA0RMknwpGzO7Btu+Hv4kJlNIGz6vqamY9hm2ew2v3gXvwh4bWaDmLwOC3R6QoGL Hlq5mwpH+07DGjb6s1MgAyNQtcd4Ezr4UMWXXFFX8do29admW+cBpUAJC3RSpbJY8NG+ SOXl2UAMHTDDSiE2hcAfo5SOEz3iXx49+QTJRY7rvKbNk0Y1WqbO3XVDlTrUxscSrJCn EN7Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Q9hf42G/MW2zi0MrvF+V/Db3qlp0jtXX3tB9qG6zPWU=; b=BEk7eV3At7JRMQlX7/pdcIstNy6yCscRjOpxhdXxLyFECtoSvBQJA08hIpMQNhKC0a J1T1Nc1bPtQ4yieQUbpckAFb8IbtXjcG0jf6T/RMahbynComKPioaYOoF2gT9VPdfjho 9orgMs6SsQD/CFQm4gcZ97P+YuUO21rsJQZhaA0QoSvUr7OYXsHDyIdeIh5l5ctOD2Fd AJGP+D7efdcBAq6oHoELtn3Cg1MLG3vdiKxIeTqEBsifWrSzeyocyAHLXZckLRUfEnEW emSW7t5nQhKUqx38gVqrjyyRWdAUexQagxBkTwKIK6DCHfcGStGfOqsxZ9vggULB7ycJ +VmQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530zkJaTuT0ZHtH3CMGKCFT8eDn+LMyvFt6wnnfsguoQW92nEyej KtiyGRKu1ApOKzY84JTzyu4sA8MNCJemmA==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJycCDmc4dzSjZlpr9hfSGHaEWbHFSGwEzfpbIATRiEmZ1uxZkxfWCTy22p8ktSfbkJOVdNGcQ==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:fb8a:: with SMTP id cp10mr22705335pjb.136.1607905221117; Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [172.20.15.112] ([202.134.35.146]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c14sm18014305pfp.167.2020.12.13.16.20.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Dec 2020 16:20:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 ULA registry]
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Cc: IPv6 List <ipv6@ietf.org>
References: <87r1o3deni.fsf@ungleich.ch> <CAKD1Yr3ptRjewThToEgERUOKwehTwdqNUAq14acc_nHLFqf3bg@mail.gmail.com> <87im9ds0z9.fsf@ungleich.ch> <fc637d64-a763-e5cf-fb93-002babe5f9ae@foobar.org> <87v9dcr37w.fsf@ungleich.ch> <CA+9kkMCb9fJQFJaP5ZaiwkQ2nRS7Fsn+q=C5OCPqdmMZRLSBKg@mail.gmail.com> <87sg8fp8ez.fsf@ungleich.ch> <47d1fbd9-8979-91af-240f-ec8c86f15e8d@gmail.com> <87h7ouoww4.fsf@ungleich.ch> <CAN-Dau06FTQr_c8C=cqgFGuPZ-KN2pbT-RmTHTEOkMZF0QWmNQ@mail.gmail.com> <b63e0c58-8e70-9c83-3f6e-6a503c20d974@gmail.com> <6983.1607632594@localhost> <b3bf02a6-f204-f392-dcb6-583d5558951f@gmail.com> <4400.1607898125@localhost>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <efa62201-b1b5-0bf4-3264-6be9325c948b@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:20:15 +1300
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4400.1607898125@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/w0mDMTusB5ASLCohgBvGv96_nN0>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2020 00:20:24 -0000
Let's stipulate that this is true: > This is a case where a ULA-C allocation per-customer would make sense, if > it could be done for a non-recurring fee. I see a challenge there. As sixxs and other examples have showed us, a pro bono service will not live for ever. How can a ULA-C registry, even a strictly non-profit one, live for ever if there is no annual fee? Regards Brian On 14-Dec-20 11:22, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > > Right, that's an entirely different situation and I hope it will be a > > frequent one. We have several /3s spare. Should we dedicate a /3 to > > that class of usage, and figure out (with IANA and the RIRs) how to > > make such prefixes available for admin cost only, or even self-service > > free of charge along the lines Nico suggested? > > > (Because I'm thinking that for the full power of such mesh networking > > to be available, ULA-C would not be enough.) > > Gosh, that would really be a good problem to have, wouldn't it? > That's 2^40 /48s, right? > 1,099,511,627,776, approximately 100 /48s per human. > > I don't think we need to dedicate a /3 to this problem. > It would, as David Farmer said, be dumb to replicate the > RIPE/ARIN/etc. databases and whois systems, and the like just for this. > David points out that Community Network allocation (a /40) is available > for $250/year from ARIN. > > That's still a bit painful and the definition is a bit unclear. > > here is an industrial/IT case that I know of: > The backplane of an IXIA testing chassis uses IPv4, 11.0.0.0/8. > It could use ULA, but: > a) it sometimes leaks packets and confuses people, especially IT. > (They need whois to diagnose what is happening. > 11.0.0.0/8 also confuses them.... WTF is DNIC doing inside our firewall?) > b) sometimes you want to link the chassis together across labs or even VPNs. > > This is a case where a ULA-C allocation per-customer would make sense, if > it could be done for a non-recurring fee. > > -- > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > >
- Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 ULA … Nico Schottelius
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Fernando Gont
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nico Schottelius
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nico Schottelius
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Laun… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Fernando Gont
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Fernando Gont
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Fernando Gont
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nick Hilliard
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nico Schottelius
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Ted Hardie
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nico Schottelius
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Fernando Gont
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Philip Homburg
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Nick Hilliard
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Ted Hardie
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … David Farmer
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Mark Smith
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Laun… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Laun… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Laun… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Laun… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re-Launching the IPv6 … Brian E Carpenter
- For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day: Re… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Ted Lemon
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nick Hilliard
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Mark Andrews
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Fernando Gont
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Fernando Gont
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Fernando Gont
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nick Hilliard
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Fred Baker
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Philip Homburg
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Jens Link
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Philip Homburg
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nick Hilliard
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Mark Andrews
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… David Farmer
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Michael Richardson
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: For whom is IPv6? [was: Happy St Nicholas Day… Nico Schottelius