RE: on-link and off-link

"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Mon, 12 July 2021 16:05 UTC

Return-Path: <pthubert@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8B03A2094 for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:05:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -7.695
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.695 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=aCbvz4WJ; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=joslM8yr
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ngyYbtNBDRnG for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 452983A2124 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 09:05:20 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2357; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1626105920; x=1627315520; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=LfnZ1wiW3Li6lYIMsLOpgXq3XfirIChPti3lV4Y7WNU=; b=aCbvz4WJvVKDrNUallmjUf+ZPHznJUoyUpPX9ajrK4gfb7MRzU0F0Y7X K+ba6xpsAv7Cp+O5QwNnP/X+Qgmn3cXOma7fudP3yxaTe1mXnOX8HtnWJ MfsfGU+ZJkVir3Sq16UleOh6Z186CF4uMtu5lyS4XDHo2sIua4Py1yLVR g=;
X-IPAS-Result: A0B0AADkZuxgl4oNJK1aDg4BAQEBAQEHAQESAQEEBAEBQIFIBAEBCwGBUlF+WjcxiBADhTmIWAOKVI9WglMDVAsBAQENAQEqCwwEAQGEVAKCeAIlNwYOAgQBAQEBAwIDAQEBAQUBAQUBAQECAQYEFAEBAQEBAQEBaIVoDYZFAQEBBAEBECgGAQEsCwELBAIBCBEEAQEfCQchBgsUCQgCBAENBQgagk8BglUDLwEOnRsBgToCih94gTSBAYIHAQEGBASFNg0LgjIDBoE6AYJ6inAnHIFJRIEVQ4JiPoIgQgEBgWKDS4IugioQY4E5UAs9RoEZkSwJgnKnZFsKgySWL4IkhXoSplKWAo9flSECBAIEBQIOAQEGgXEjgVtwFTuCaVAZDo4fGYNXhRSFBUVzOAIGCgEBAwmMMwEB
IronPort-PHdr: A9a23:wUrdlBEGsg0ve104YnRjOJ1Gfj4Y04WdBeZdwpo6gq1Dc+Ko+JGxd EDc5PA4iljPUM2b7v9fkOPZvujmXnBI+peOtn0OMfkuHx8IgMkbhUosVciCD0CoLOPjcCE7W s9FUQwt83SyK0MAHsH4ahXbqWGz6jhHHBL5OEJ1K+35F5SUgd6w0rW5+obYZENDgz/uCY4=
IronPort-HdrOrdr: A9a23:G6K0EaktN0NbyLi6iEo76C8rGwfpDfIe3DAbv31ZSRFFG/Fw8P re5MjztCWE7gr5PUtKpTnuAse9qB/nhPpICPAqUYtKIjOHhILYFvAa0WKK+VSJdBEWkNQttp uIXJIeNDSaNykcsS+V2njcLz5pqOPszEjj7d2y858iJjsaCZ1d0w==
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.84,234,1620691200"; d="scan'208";a="720297055"
Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 12 Jul 2021 16:05:19 +0000
Received: from mail.cisco.com (xbe-rcd-002.cisco.com [173.37.102.17]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 16CG5Igh027362 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:05:19 GMT
Received: from xfe-aln-001.cisco.com (173.37.135.121) by xbe-rcd-002.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:05:18 -0500
Received: from xfe-aln-003.cisco.com (173.37.135.123) by xfe-aln-001.cisco.com (173.37.135.121) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:05:18 -0500
Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (173.37.151.57) by xfe-aln-003.cisco.com (173.37.135.123) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.792.15 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 11:05:18 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=XywajZuuGi6VxiJVKwsUBgmKHlWe5pJdsc8q/ukhr44J0o881TNSs4dFefObNV4adVcvVz+L57PHYMtFWGPuTATPN4QIYyYMD50giwrruU1ogalzsKWIkfWd/Vl+t/aP+MI0Rr6L7WejOL2+wiW0X342E+yz9aQh54Iwj0Xw5CU4OtfFpVLgf4HzdeBkWpy1wlMnXp+nyerb4F/CraPy0IZtIGEsg09oxsZ/NOeSLwwc6MVZLQf55dUj9+9rLJmTrmILBgvuz/AHYFjtatk7beOco++R6vDrZUb9NFswqEjgPHVKxJGFpyut8/A0yPR2BDcj3KXflSbC/9Oh5afeOA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LfnZ1wiW3Li6lYIMsLOpgXq3XfirIChPti3lV4Y7WNU=; b=WX4M5MQb8gzLFFqD90ITuFwRCKTFE3hxlS4i1CmM57fYjydVkZcWBbaSASd9O/Xt+kA/JMX32N0OxmSRFpZqer2CUlyBDyGJ+y47b7mUvv3/j2avsGwzfzhkIhPzKWPG6kbWBKfhWy2eiPA0LD53p3yV45OQ3RkvVWLs9F6azXR+fn0nkZVshB3jSK4+65gYzdVe08PYuQ3Mf72jYcHjDESExZD68GChtzClgkM4/7y4oOhENCu9sQgDAhmWBt7fMTMcH7JM72Z23Y2bTH52vuDUhXn08ArXkjQjgk+pDpPWLYR7RcliLCQCWrv6hJWV3mn1Z1TpzasTTkHElveLTA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=cisco.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=cisco.com; dkim=pass header.d=cisco.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=LfnZ1wiW3Li6lYIMsLOpgXq3XfirIChPti3lV4Y7WNU=; b=joslM8yr7Am02nzxO1FUUrqc8Zqb/UOEsUND20CKGj8mE2V1fCufqxpywDhplMJFwtcvYdbcj1DsxMEGHS0aRofPR89KGn44WdpTi1LjnVhT10aG7Qfq6vKW+I9lV33DaHWk2gbjAZETzoafFR2WXHSTQ9zLfOa1SwcZ3tGHzBc=
Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:91::20) by MW3PR11MB4571.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:303:59::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4308.23; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:05:17 +0000
Received: from CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1c75:fcc9:2c53:3af6]) by CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1c75:fcc9:2c53:3af6%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4308.026; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:05:17 +0000
From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Vasilenko Eduard <vasilenko.eduard@huawei.com>, Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-7@u-1.phicoh.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
CC: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: on-link and off-link
Thread-Topic: on-link and off-link
Thread-Index: AQHXdycLTs4jffoiw0euzS4sSrTBi6s/dI/ogAAEEoCAAAac8A==
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:04:00 +0000
Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:00:46 +0000
Message-ID: <CO1PR11MB4881F0E86ABF8AF04364D9A9D8159@CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <162512790860.6559.14490468072475126698@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAFU7BAT0O9nsuhs5FyNjvPfRKY+EM1fLYKaMYTwaPg2QjZAEpA@mail.gmail.com> <61e14cd7-ff37-5380-e547-8a9b6d3993da@gmail.com> <CAFU7BASF-vas+PP2dVNXuqScQArC+joB-fwRGzG3UZnsqq1QJg@mail.gmail.com> <6A22DCF6-5132-44D3-AB45-E9C151376D2C@cisco.com> <6f6ab3f9-daa8-a468-1abc-f32a22497af2@gmail.com> <m1m2xiY-0000FNC@stereo.hq.phicoh.net> <3652d4977d7540469730c35c83e20d60@huawei.com>
In-Reply-To: <3652d4977d7540469730c35c83e20d60@huawei.com>
Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: huawei.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;huawei.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8267e3ee-7891-4afd-71fd-08d9454ed753
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MW3PR11MB4571:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MW3PR11MB4571BF6B32C37BA42D683235D8159@MW3PR11MB4571.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(376002)(346002)(39860400002)(136003)(366004)(396003)(66476007)(66446008)(6666004)(66556008)(64756008)(478600001)(33656002)(9686003)(966005)(6506007)(55016002)(53546011)(66946007)(7696005)(76116006)(71200400001)(86362001)(316002)(8676002)(186003)(52536014)(38100700002)(110136005)(5660300002)(4326008)(4743002)(66574015)(83380400001)(8936002)(3480700007)(122000001)(2906002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO1PR11MB4881.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8267e3ee-7891-4afd-71fd-08d9454ed753
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Jul 2021 16:05:17.1194 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: avlaM0QvMVALyOLNkA+uCx+AuYiy1CbLs9FSJF5QgrA8/4ASP8P/QzB86p9/SPAviF9Sid9Ge+24RaMsKOn6Vw==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW3PR11MB4571
X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com
X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.17, xbe-rcd-002.cisco.com
X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/w_SVhkYFSWbEndCZpxX0RAVpPg0>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 16:05:39 -0000

Exactly; the model at the IP layer has to be multilink subnet.
Your link local gets you to a router but not to all in the subnet.

With IPv6 all is abstracted with multicast operations and link local addresses. 
So what IP considers a link and who belongs to a subnet (is constrained by but) does not need to match what the L2 sees, e.g., the L2 links (e.g., an ethernet wire or a radio range) and the L2 broadcast domains (e.g., a 802.1 bridged domain or a Wi-Fi ESS). 
IPv4 gave the wrong habit of thinking they have to be congruent. They don't.

Pascal

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 <ipv6-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Vasilenko Eduard
> Sent: lundi 12 juillet 2021 17:35
> To: Philip Homburg <pch-ipv6-ietf-7@u-1.phicoh.com>; ipv6@ietf.org
> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: on-link and off-link
> 
> NBMA or P2MP are not supported by IPv6 anyway because it is not possible
> to check LLA uniqueness - multicast does not work.
> LLA proxy is needed on the hub site.
> Ed/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Philip Homburg
> Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 6:20 PM
> To: ipv6@ietf.org
> Cc: Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: on-link and off-link
> 
> > I think one question
> > might be: do we agree that each IP address is assigned on an
> > interface, and thus is on-link on a particular link?
> 
> This is not correct. On a NBMA link it is possible that all GUA addresses
> are not on-link.
> 
> The conceptual model of on-link is that a host can use neighbor discovery
> to find an onlink neighbor. If the neighbor is not on-link then traffic
> has to go (at least initially) through a default router.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
> ipv6@ietf.org
> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
> --------------------------------------------------------------------