Re: How do we handle 4 billion CRH-FIB entries ¿?

Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Fri, 22 May 2020 22:00 UTC

Return-Path: <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54E733A0DA2; Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:30 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bFWFjrPlpSx8; Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:28 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pl1-x642.google.com (mail-pl1-x642.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::642]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A79FF3A0D88; Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pl1-x642.google.com with SMTP id k22so4944887pls.10; Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=jQfu7lH+fA0M822GA7s2XI9adjS8eIscYXkQBkb6+TA=; b=LSElwmlYmlIaFU4t3RdN8vz12E2mO/aYJ7r6IddFZrmStI2fOROGzN+Ty5G8MRknPx OLMK+amjytMOvcvGnlajpuLNmg2LyS5+m5i5TzkMP9Cdr6YY28gERl2xoqDSnJ4o7x5A Ms8Qp3JuofmlMUp1ajV0uSQ5dH28ofJM/G6jFkd1unXbjozMzK50pxc4ytpyGV0yws4U 4uM2LDqYJrcnzW++nWoRLfPEya3emQy5s6jH6BP/oHgl18dJMi4xamgTFGJz63bmYDH2 gRb57bM45R8ZObVxia2jUUqzSnj6aRJPTVGkOTGp1VD3ntPW3ql9Vd9yQG/9n0WeSSyx Zwcg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jQfu7lH+fA0M822GA7s2XI9adjS8eIscYXkQBkb6+TA=; b=Iud4uvvzQV/rE789JwGt6Cj6KxzFo6U+4kTwfqVyrGnpNpwL/unv4VJgR05Gwwj8ND JmEHKH8RZWWjwCAmabQpadrEL8MMokdxWgrjVbjkhBNC6T+Nk3lH+yXchEQV/3S2TLOR GHERdxvLJr9M5xu25w1H4EYYJHZk7odVaQdrOGNqveA5GBg3ltXTdWvDico5fqeLN1Vh YNOXribiEjD+f1I0cIBqGzywC6y+ZGwrIqJnXis4GiLIrehIVkhIlnluw6cZtBLk+Vkz Ozh2QxbA3B+Y/sELFMA4iqkyrEfMSQI+iYjmORuCZbC13sDr3Zmy5yzMmj1xjlMvB4rd qPmw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532YFg9hxGVxz066RGWUr42PGZ6lqA/DKLGnolQMM7uID5Sgk8Ti YKuDH6H+10m1ZnEJmg4NfM/eU2td
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxnZKt94o4Zil+ezBRgPqcVvmIkDnJPWKjLohTgnKgxb2atBLGpNyCf3Ld1UpkDOFWRK0ejEA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4b47:: with SMTP id o7mr6193802pjl.205.1590184821116; Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.178.30] ([165.84.12.178]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t10sm7550314pjj.19.2020.05.22.15.00.18 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 22 May 2020 15:00:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: How do we handle 4 billion CRH-FIB entries ¿?
To: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>, "rbonica@juniper.net" <rbonica@juniper.net>, draft-bonica-6man-comp-rtg-hdr@ietf.org
Cc: "6man@ietf.org" <6man@ietf.org>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
References: <MWHPR11MB13748B1068560BD2878C89CBC9B40@MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <efae2beb-5361-f49e-7b8f-855fb9f3eff9@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 10:00:15 +1200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR11MB13748B1068560BD2878C89CBC9B40@MWHPR11MB1374.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/xCDePWpi_INYPw0h6QkriTkYE6s>
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 22:00:31 -0000

Pablo,
On 22-May-20 23:00, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril) wrote:
...
> 1.- How does it scale for an operator to configure on CLI more than 4 billion node-local CRH-FIB entries for the entire network?

It doesn't. It's clear that the words "configure" and "CLI" must be removed from an operator's vocabulary in such a network. Everything must configure itself, autonomically.

> 2.- Assuming that some day in the future you would like to advertise this in the IGP: how is it going to deal with 4 billion node-local entries?

There will never be such a problem. I'm not sure that RPL is the answer to all questions, but you can forget about traditional IGPs completely in such a network.

> Also, you said:
> 
>> Somewhere in the network, there is an entity constructs the CRH and the list that it contains. That entity needs access to another data structure, that includes a global view of each node’s CRH-FIB.

Indeed, that will not happen at such scale. There needs to be a distributed data structure; there will be no "global view" except at the policy intent level.

This is why some people have been thinking about autonomic networking for some years, and if it sounds like research, some aspects are indeed still research.

That doesn't argue against 32 bits; it just tells you that 32 bits is a strategic, not a tactical, choice. Rather like choosing 128 bits for IPv6, when 64 would have been "enough".

Regards,
    Brian