RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragmentation function
"Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Wed, 10 July 2013 20:07 UTC
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From: "Templin, Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: james woodyatt <jhw@apple.com>, "ipv6@ietf.org" <ipv6@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragmentation function
Thread-Topic: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragmentation function
Thread-Index: AQHOfZp7EVtgyhVSFES4anVAs4ggI5leTEDggAAJ9YA=
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:07:31 +0000
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References: <FAD482FE-4583-472A-8B57-E789A942686E@gmail.com> <1DF7BDE3-1490-41FE-A959-EC8EC54B0A5F@tzi.org> <8B84E185-36AC-4F22-A88E-5A2F1200AE8B@gmail.com> <51DC48F7.2080901@dougbarton.us> <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509FA39E2@BL2PRD0512MB646.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <51DC5955.4030700@dougbarton.us> <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509FB8317@BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D983180B812F@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com> <2CF4CB03E2AA464BA0982EC92A02CE2509FBAB7B@BY2PRD0512MB653.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> <B5A72885-678A-442A-86D7-D710D2324A28@apple.com> <2134F8430051B64F815C691A62D983180B86A9@XCH-BLV-504.nw.nos.boeing.com>
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Hi, > A quick read of Section > 4 of my new draft should be all you need to understand > what I'm talking about: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-generic-6man-tunfrag-08 Here is the text I'm talking about so I won't have to keep repeating myself: Thanks - Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com --- 4. IPv6 Tunnels IPv6 tunnels are used for many purposes, including transition, security, mobility, routing control, etc. While it is assumed that transition mechanisms will eventually give way to native IPv6, it is clear that the use of tunnels for other purposes will continue and even expand. A long term strategy for dealing with tunnel MTUs is therefore required. Tunnels may cross links (perhaps even other tunnels) that configue only the IPv6 minMTU of 1280 bytes while the tunnel ingress must be able to send packets that are at least 1280 bytes in length so that the IPv6 minMTU is extended to the source. However, these tunneled packets become (1280 + HLEN) bytes on the wire (where HLEN is the length of the encapsulating headers), meaning that they would be vulerable to loss at a link within the tunnel that configures a smaller MTU. Therefore, the only way to satisfy the IPv6 minMTU is through network layer fragmentation and reassembly between the tunnel ingress and egress, where the ingress fragments its tunneled packets that are larger than (1280 - HLEN) bytes. Unfortunately, fragmentation and reassembly are a pain point for in- the-network routers - especially for those that are nearer the core of the network. It is therefore highly desirable for the tunnel ingress to discover whether this fragmentation and reassembly can be avoided. This can only be done by allowing the ingress to probe the path to the egress by sending whole 1500 byte probe packets to discover whether the probes can be delivered to the egress without fragmentation. These 1500 byte probes appear as (1500 + HLEN) bytes on the wire, therefore the path must support an MTU of at least this size in order for the probe to succeed. The tunnel fragmentation and reassembly strategy is therefore as follows: 1. When the tunnel ingress receives a packet that is no larger than (1280-HLEN) bytes, it encapsulates the packet and sends it to the egress without fragmentation. The egress will receive the packet since it is small enough to fit within the IPv6 minMTU of 1280 bytes. 2. When the tunnel egress receives a packet that is larger than 1500 bytes, it encapsulates the packet and sends it to the egress without fragmentation. If the packet is lost in the network due to a size restriction, the ingress may or may not reeceive a PTB message which it can then forward to the original soruce. Whether or not a PTB message is received, however, it is the responsibility of the original source to ensure that its packets larger than 1500 bytes are making it to the final destination by using a path probing technique such as specified by [RFC4821]. 3. When the tunnel ingress receives a packet larger than (1280 - HLEN) but no larger than 1500 bytes, and it is not yet known whether packets of this size can reach the egress without fragmentation, the ingress encapsulates the packet and uses network layer fragmentation to fragment it into two pieces that are each signifiicantly smaller than (1280 - HLEN) bytes. At the same time, the tunnel ingress sends an unfragmented 1500 byte probe packet toward the egress (subject to rate limiting) which will appear as (1500 + HLEN) bytes on the wire. If the egress receives the probe, it informs the ingress that the probe succeeded. If the probe succeeds, the ingress can suspend the fragmentation process and send packets between (1280-HLEN) and 1500 bytes without using fragmentation. This probing process exactly parallels [RFC4821]. In this method, the tunnel egress must configure a slightly larger MRU than the minMRU specified for IPv6 in order to accommodate the HLEN bytes of tunnel encapsulation during reassembly. 2KB is recommended as the minMRU for this reason. These procedures give way to the ability for the tunnel ingress to configure an unlimited MTU (theoretical limit is 2^16 bytes for IPv4 and 2^32 bytes for IPv6). They will therefore naturally lead to the Internet migrating to larger packet sizes with no dependence on traditional path MTU discovery. Operators will also soon discover that configuring larger MTUs on links between routers (e.g., 2KB or larger) will dampen the fragmentation and reassembly requirements until fragmentation and reassembly usage is gradually tuned out of the network. These procedures are not supported by the existing IPv6 fragmentation procedures, however they are exactly those specified in the Subnetwork Encapsulation and Adaptation Layer (SEAL) [I-D.templin-intarea-seal]. Widespread adoption of SEAL will therefore naturally lead to an Internet which no longer places MTU restrictions on tunnels and therefore supports natural migration to unbounded packet sizes. ---
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate sthaug
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Carsten Bormann
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ronald Bonica
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Arturo Servin
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Smith
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Tassos Chatzithomaoglou
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Simon Perreault
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- Re: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bo… Ray Hunter
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… joel jaeggli
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- RE: RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bo… Ronald Bonica
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ray Hunter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Tore Anderson
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Mark Andrews
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Glen Turner
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… George Michaelson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Sheng Jiang
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Doug Barton
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Liubing (Leo)
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Tore Anderson
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ronald Bonica
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ronald Bonica
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ole Troan
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Marc Lampo
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Mark Smith
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Hagen Paul Pfeifer
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Hagen Paul Pfeifer
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Ronald Bonica
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… joel jaeggli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Sheng Jiang
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… George Michaelson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… joel jaeggli
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ronald Bonica
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Randy Bush
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… joel jaeggli
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… George Michaelson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Geoff Huston
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Bob Hinden
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Glen Turner
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Geoff Huston
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Tore Anderson
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… John Leslie
- RE: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Templin, Fred L
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Christian Huitema
- Re: [6MAN] New Version Notification for draft-bon… Warren Kumari
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ole Troan
- Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-bonica… Brian Jones
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Randy Bush
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Ole Troan
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Randy Bush
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Tony Hain
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Randy Bush
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… George Michaelson
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Kevin Lahey
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Tony Hain
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Sheng Jiang
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Randy Bush
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Hagen Paul Pfeifer
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Hagen Paul Pfeifer
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fernando Gont
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Mark Andrews
- draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Randy Bush
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Fernando Gont
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Marc Lampo
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Antonios Atlasis
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Antonios Atlasis
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Tony Hain
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Mark Andrews
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Karl Auer
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Ole Troan
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Mark Andrews
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Erik Nygren
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… james woodyatt
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragmentat… Fernando Gont
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Hannes Frederic Sowa
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Doug Barton
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Antonios Atlasis
- Re: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Ole Troan
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… C. M. Heard
- RE: draft-bonica-6man-frag-deprecate Templin, Fred L
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- RE: New Version Notification for draft-bonica-6ma… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Francis Dupont
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Marc Lampo
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Fernando Gont
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Fernando Gont
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Mark Andrews
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… RJ Atkinson
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Randy Bush
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Brian Jones
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Carsten Bormann
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… RJ Atkinson
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Doug Barton
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Doug Barton
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Carsten Bormann
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… RJ Atkinson
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… james woodyatt
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… james woodyatt
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Ronald Bonica
- RE: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Templin, Fred L
- Re: Meta-issues: On the deprecation of the fragme… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: "Deprecate" Templin, Fred L
- Re: "Deprecate" Mark Andrews
- Re: "Deprecate" Francis Dupont
- Re: "Deprecate" RJ Atkinson
- Re: "Deprecate" RJ Atkinson
- RE: "Deprecate" Templin, Fred L
- RE: "Deprecate" Templin, Fred L
- RE: "Deprecate" Templin, Fred L
- RE: "Deprecate" Templin, Fred L
- RE: "Deprecate" C. M. Heard