RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Mon, 12 October 2020 13:15 UTC
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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
CC: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>, 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 13:15:09 +0000
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Responding to this point again: Ø Link specific versions of link-local addresses don't and won't comply with RFC4291 and all of its ancestors, because there is nothing that says the format of the link local address can be defined by link specific documents IPv6-over-foo documents already do place their own link-specific interpretations on link-local addresses. It happens in RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, etc. Each of these specs gives its own link-specific representation of link-local addresses including a prefix length definition that does not appear in RFC4291. This is the way that link-locals are defined within the context of *that specific interface type*, and the addresses are not to be forwarded to other interface types. And, none of these documents say “updates RFC4291”. What is being proposed in the OMNI spec is really no different in spirit – it just makes a good use out of otherwise-wasted bits which by the way is very important on low-end data links such as those that occur in aviation applications. Fred From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 9:12 AM To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> Cc: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>; atn@ietf.org; Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Hi Mark, We want to use link-locals (fe80::/10) – else we would have to do a wholesale update of key RFCs such as RFC4861. Plus, RFC4291 says: Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or destination addresses to other links. and since the OMNI link is the only one on which the addresses would appear on the “wire” it should be possible to make a good use out of the otherwise-wasted 54 buts. All it takes is an “updates RFC4291” , for which we see many prior examples. Fred From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 4:30 PM To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> Cc: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>>; Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com<mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>; atn@ietf.org<mailto:atn@ietf.org> Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 08:35 Templin (US), Fred L, <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote: Fred, > The concept of embedding information in the 54 “must be zero” bits of the link local address is enticing, but may not prove > interoperable, given the “must be zero” definition of a link local address. Also good input, but given that these link-local addresses are defined and intended for the exclusive use of a specific IPv6-over-(foo) interface type, only interfaces that understand the address format will process the addresses and they will understand the usage of the 54 bits. Link specific versions of link-local addresses don't and won't comply with RFC4291 and all of its ancestors, because there is nothing that says the format of the link local address can be defined by link specific documents. These zero bits have always been zeros. Why the effort to shoehorn new functionality into existing and long defined IPv6 address spaces? Follow the ULA verses site-local example - if new functionality is considered different enough to justify updating existing, decades old and very widely deployed address formats, then I'd think the threshold of asking for new IPv6 address space for this functionality is passed. We have about 7/8ths of the IPv6 address space not defined for any purpose (it'd be a different story for new functionality in IPv4 addressing). With new address space there is no need to both update and be constrained within old address space definitions, and there is much less if any compatibility considerations and concerns with existing deployments. You could call your new address space OMNI Link-Local Addresses. Regards, Mark. Thanks - Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPv6 working group mailing list ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org> Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 --------------------------------------------------------------------
- Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI) Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Robert Moskowitz
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Fred Baker
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Mark Smith
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Fernando Gont
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Fernando Gont
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… 神明達哉
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… otroan
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information… Philip Homburg
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Ted Hardie
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Ole Troan
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Manfredi (US), Albert E
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Vasilenko Eduard
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in … Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Bob Hinden
- RE: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Michael Richardson
- RE: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Philip Homburg
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 add… Bob Hinden
- Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (… Michael Richardson
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Philip Homburg
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an… Templin (US), Fred L
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: [EXTERNAL] Embedding IP information in an IPv… Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Bob Hinden
- Re: Starlink --- "simpler than IPv6" Alexandre Petrescu