RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)

"Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> Mon, 12 October 2020 13:15 UTC

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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
CC: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>, 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>, "atn@ietf.org" <atn@ietf.org>, Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
Thread-Topic: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)
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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 13:15:09 +0000
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Responding to this point again:


Ø  Link specific versions of link-local addresses don't and won't comply with RFC4291 and all of its ancestors, because there is nothing that says the format of the link local address can be defined by link specific documents

IPv6-over-foo documents already do place their own link-specific interpretations on
link-local addresses. It happens in RFC2464, RFC2467, RFC2470, etc. Each of these specs
gives its own link-specific representation of link-local addresses including a prefix
length definition that does not appear in RFC4291. This is the way that link-locals are
defined within the context of *that specific interface type*, and the addresses are
not to be forwarded to other interface types. And, none of these documents say
“updates RFC4291”. What is being proposed in the OMNI spec is really no different
in spirit – it just makes a good use out of otherwise-wasted bits which by the way is
very important on low-end data links such as those that occur in aviation applications.

Fred

From: atn [mailto:atn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 9:12 AM
To: Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com>
Cc: Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>om>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org>rg>; atn@ietf.org; Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [atn] [EXTERNAL] Re: Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)

Hi Mark,

We want to use link-locals (fe80::/10) – else we would have to do a wholesale update
of key RFCs such as RFC4861. Plus, RFC4291 says:

   Routers must not forward any packets with Link-Local source or
   destination addresses to other links.

and since the OMNI link is the only one on which the addresses would appear on
the “wire” it should be possible to make a good use out of the otherwise-wasted
54 buts. All it takes is an “updates RFC4291” , for which we see many prior examples.

Fred

From: Mark Smith [mailto:markzzzsmith@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2020 4:30 PM
To: Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>>
Cc: Fred Baker <fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com<mailto:fredbaker.ietf@gmail.com>>; Robert Moskowitz <rgm@labs.htt-consult.com<mailto:rgm@labs.htt-consult.com>>; 6man <ipv6@ietf.org<mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>>; atn@ietf.org<mailto:atn@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [atn] Embedding IP information in an IPv6 address (OMNI)

On Sat, 10 Oct 2020, 08:35 Templin (US), Fred L, <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com<mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>> wrote:
Fred,

> The concept of embedding information in the 54 “must be zero” bits of the link local address is enticing, but may not prove
> interoperable, given the “must be zero” definition of a link local address.

Also good input, but given that these link-local addresses are defined and intended
for the exclusive use of a specific IPv6-over-(foo) interface type, only interfaces that
understand the address format will process the addresses and they will understand
the usage of the 54 bits.

Link specific versions of link-local addresses don't and won't comply with RFC4291 and all of its ancestors, because there is nothing that says the format of the link local address can be defined by link specific documents. These zero bits have always been zeros.

Why the effort to shoehorn new functionality into existing and long defined IPv6 address spaces?

Follow the ULA verses site-local example - if new functionality is considered different enough to justify updating existing, decades old and very widely deployed address formats, then I'd think the threshold of asking for new IPv6 address space for this functionality is passed. We have about 7/8ths of the IPv6 address space not defined for any purpose (it'd be a different story for new functionality in IPv4 addressing).

With new address space there is no need to both update and be constrained within old address space definitions, and there is much less if any compatibility considerations and concerns with existing deployments.

You could call your new address space OMNI Link-Local Addresses.

Regards,
Mark.



Thanks - Fred
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