Re: Adoption call criteria for CRH? [was: Re: CRH and RH0]

["Zafar Ali (zali)" <[e-mail]>]

Hi John,

You’ll recall what the 6man chairs said in Montreal and Singapore regarding CRH:

During Spring session [1]:  
“[Bob Hinden]  As 6man co-chair, would like to understand whether SPRING is interested in this work.”

Bob reiterated the same message during Singapore IETF [https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/aWkqPfpvDRyjrW8snR8TCohxcBg/]
“Regarding the Spring related drafts … <snip> We did not see very much value in also discussing them in 6man.   Once items have been adopted in Spring, we think it is appropriate to adopt the IPv6 relevant parts, but that’s not yet the case now.”

Nothing has changed w.r.t. the competing solution review in Spring since Singapore.

Instead of following the chair’s direction, in Feb 2020 the authors of CRH just simply removed normative reference to the SRm6 to get 6man adopt CRH ahead of SPRING compression discussion..

To achieve the said goal, the authors of CRH draft first positioned it as a replacement of RH0.
Now RH0 has been removed from CRH draft.
There is no longer any architecture and use-case to justify adoption call for CRH.

It is clear to all that the current draft and adoption request is an attempt to circumvent the standard practice.

Ref:
[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/minutes-105-spring-00
Video: Under: Ron’s session on IPv6 Support for Segment Routing: SRv6+       (10:44)

Thanks

Regards … Zafar

From: ipv6 <[e-mail]> on behalf of John Scudder <jgs=[e-mail]>
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 4:02 PM
To: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Cc: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Adoption call criteria for CRH? [was: Re: CRH and RH0]

I’m a little confused about this conversation and I’d like to ask the chairs for clarification. My actual questions are at the end of this long(ish) message, and can be summarized as (1) does 6man require consent from SPRING before defining routing headers, and (2) what criteria are the chairs using to decide when an adoption call is OK?

It seems to me there are at least two, only vaguely related, conversations going on. One of them is a debate about the assertion that 6man can’t even consider taking up CRH unless SPRING approves it. The other is a more free-wheeling line of questioning about “what is CRH for anyway”?

I presume both of these relate to Ron’s request for an adoption call. Here’s what the minutes from the interim have:

Bob: Thank you Ron. I think it's too early for adoption call.

Ron: What is needed to get to adoption call.

Bob: I can't answer right now.

Ron: Can I ask on list?

Bob: OK.

Ole: Related to what's going on in spring.

Too bad we have no audio recording, but that’s not too far from my recollection. Anyway, I don’t think I’ve seen this answered on list yet, so I’m asking again.

Regarding the SPRING-related process stuff:

I have quite a bit of history with how SPRING was chartered; I was one of the original co-chairs and helped write the charter, god help me. I can tell you for certain there was no intent that SPRING should have exclusive ownership of source routing in the IETF, the name isn’t a power-grab, it’s a clever backronym, as we do in the IETF. If one entity in the IETF were to take charge of all source routing, that sounds more like a new area than a WG. But don’t take my word for it, go read the various iterations of the charter. As anyone who’s looked at the Segment Routing document set can tell, Segment Routing is one, very specific, way of doing source routing. As Ketan and others have pointed out, it’s a pile of architecture plus the bits and pieces to instantiate that architecture. That is fine, but the idea that merely because a technology might be used to instantiate part of that architecture, it’s owned by SPRING, is overreach. Just because a sandwich is a filling between two pieces of starch, doesn’t mean every filling between two pieces of starch is a sandwich. [1]

But at any rate, the question for the chairs is: do you think 6man needs SPRING’s permission in order to consider adopting CRH? Does 6man need permission from SPRING for all routing headers, or just some, and if it’s just some, what characterizes them?

Regarding the more general “what is CRH for anyway” stuff:

This seems to me to be exactly the kind of discussion one would normally have in the context of an adoption call. Why is it not being had in that context? To rewind back to the interim, if it’s still “too early for adoption call”, what has to happen for it not to be too early?

Thanks,

—John

[1] https://cuberule.com
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