A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stability with IPv6
RJ Atkinson <rja.lists@gmail.com> Thu, 13 March 2014 12:49 UTC
Return-Path: <rja.lists@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98121A087E for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3_wjvdk_F5Jt for <ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-qg0-x22c.google.com (mail-qg0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5D201A0833 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-qg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id a108so2837644qge.3 for <ipv6@ietf.org>; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date:message-id :to:mime-version; bh=IJpGIDX/RQywqk6rKCbmUwiJpTf4inomCeeKCwChlas=; b=lk+HBBLoRVMo8VqQC/UwoSRJCIJLMSwLJypE9LHdvCTMzF4RV8Y3Mr2WksRDTxkvZj zL4QN2OpIwB69DfmPpavljSroDzyz7sW8aixbkse8fwXxxIR6Td/SR103wu2yhtiLPSh QixQzULxR8ahg0Xn9rfpLeGHppJuu6CvIoUp3P4V3+hBMguNvEcbKOjazlaV26h4kusV SmDLLdm6bV8cMcfRmLIe1n2NfE/mEIGmHOuTyJSgHGR/uQWsuZMwMA7YaHJ3OF1ms3UA E5F+3C+c4Xte1949JsdlBhObL4JYGzGjo+CsvDNLdmdjFnkd2/m3adNFxCcSsZFQNR5+ tdJw==
X-Received: by 10.224.51.74 with SMTP id c10mr2020546qag.33.1394714965032; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [10.30.20.15] (pool-173-79-6-58.washdc.fios.verizon.net. [173.79.6.58]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r31sm3020424qgr.12.2014.03.13.05.49.24 for <ipv6@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:49:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: RJ Atkinson <rja.lists@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stability with IPv6
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 08:49:35 -0400
Message-Id: <E2C06D73-99FF-42B5-A3BE-337C307BCB0E@gmail.com>
To: ipv6@ietf.org
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283)
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283)
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/z13_I4H6TmBxd3uVpgo2QQAgpzw
X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" <ipv6.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipv6/>
List-Post: <mailto:ipv6@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6>, <mailto:ipv6-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:49:34 -0000
All, When I talk with users (academic, business/enterprise, or governmental) about IPv6, the single most common concern they raise is that: The IETF keeps changing IPv6. Clearly IPv6 is not yet ready for widespread use until they stop changing the specifications. The IETF community is largely one of protocol-minded folks. As engineers and scientists, we also love to optimise and improve things. There are daily temptations to tweak, edit, change, and improve IETF protocols -- especially if there is an active IETF Working Group for a given IETF protocol. If folks in the IETF IPv6 WG want IPv6 to be more widely deployed, more rapidly deployed, and its capabilities to be more widely used, then WE NEED TO STOP CHANGING THE IPv6 SPECIFICATIONS. As I say this, I specifically am NOT referring to Fernando Gont's work, which is important in educating implementers and users about how to safely implement, deploy, and use IPv6. I also am NOT referring to the work in draft-halpern-6man-nd-pre-resolve-addr, since that I-D can be implemented and used WITHOUT any IPv6 specification changes. I also am NOT referring to potential link-specific "IPv6 over new-link-type-X" specifications that do NOT change any of the IPv6 base specifications. I AM including a number of other proposals [examples include, but are not limited to (1) changing every ND implementation merely to optimise for one broken MAC protocol, (2) changing the IPv6 architecture that separates IIDs from routing goop in a clean way with a change that (a) also reduces the entropy available from the IPv6 Privacy extensions, (b) facilitates tracking of users, (c) breaks the ability to use CGAs, and (d) breaks the ability to protect ND], that were presented last week and that have been topics of discussion on this list within the last few weeks. My bottom line is that non-security-related changes to the IPv6 standards-track specifications (including ND, ICMPv6, and so forth) needs to be avoided. By contrast, documenting *optional* implementation optimisations, ideally as Informational status documents, is fine. Documenting security issues and ways that those issues can be mitigated also is fine. Documenting how IPv6 runs over some new type of link layer also is fine, but again really might be published as Informational status, rather than standards-track. Yours, Ran Atkinson
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Erik Nordmark
- A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stabilit… RJ Atkinson
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Sander Steffann
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Fred Baker (fred)
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Cb B
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… RJ Atkinson
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… t.petch
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… RJ Atkinson
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… RJ Atkinson
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it (was: … Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Jeroen Massar
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Jeroen Massar
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Hesham Soliman
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Hesham Soliman
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it joel jaeggli
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it joel jaeggli
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Alexandru Petrescu
- RE: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Hesham Soliman
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Hesham Soliman
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Alexandru Petrescu
- RE: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- RE: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Manfredi, Albert E
- RE: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Cb B
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Lorenzo Colitti
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Hesham Soliman
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Hesham Soliman
- RE: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Manfredi, Albert E
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Brian E Carpenter
- Re: there _is_ IPv6 NAT - just look for it Alexandru Petrescu
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Glen Turner
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Ole Troan
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Glen Turner
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Brian E Carpenter
- RE: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Hemant Singh (shemant)
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Glen Turner
- Re: A Plea for Architectural & Specification Stab… Tim Chown
- Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architectura… Ole Troan
- Re: Link addressing Brian E Carpenter
- Re: Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architec… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architec… sthaug
- Re: Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architec… Ole Troan
- Re: Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architec… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: Link addressing (was: Re: A Plea for Architec… Mark ZZZ Smith
- Re: Link addressing Erik Nordmark