Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted

James Kempf <james.kempf@ericsson.com> Tue, 31 July 2012 16:00 UTC

Return-Path: <james.kempf@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEF0B21F84EA for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.13
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.13 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.469, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pyMfDuN00JQ8 for <irs-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:00:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455F621F855F for <irs-discuss@ietf.org>; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 09:00:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id q6VFxuwR015295; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 10:59:59 -0500
Received: from EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.135]) by eusaamw0706.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.31]) with mapi; Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:59:52 -0400
From: James Kempf <james.kempf@ericsson.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 11:59:51 -0400
Thread-Topic: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
Thread-Index: Ac1uwYLM51fewlmcR7mZUNdRqj8CvQAc/dBQ
Message-ID: <CE39F5249064D946AA3535E63A014619656FB98A2A@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se>
References: <CE39F5249064D946AA3535E63A014619656FB98703@EUSAACMS0703.eamcs.ericsson.se> <CC3C59B2.2275E%nitinb@juniper.net> <728F9B956B2C48439CA9294B1723B14623754A18@dfweml509-mbs.china.huawei.com> <EE2E7697-92F1-4E98-A3FE-47CDF28C81C7@juniper.net> <F0ABFF98-0B62-4203-B3BA-EF704AE0FBA7@raszuk.net> <CAG4d1rd-g5m6aUb6GQjvu++y6QjHrF1dgsdV7oePMSZaaaomeQ@mail.gmail.com> <CDE9865E-E8DE-4754-A0C2-8875ECCAF865@raszuk.net>
In-Reply-To: <CDE9865E-E8DE-4754-A0C2-8875ECCAF865@raszuk.net>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
acceptlanguage: en-US
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, Nitin Bahadur <nitinb@juniper.net>, Susan Hares <susan.hares@huawei.com>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
X-BeenThere: irs-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Interface to The Internet Routing System \(IRS\)" <irs-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/irs-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:irs-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss>, <mailto:irs-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 16:00:05 -0000

 
 
> Alia,
> 
> 
> > Hi Rob,
> > 
> > On the lower layer, Openflow talks to control/specify the 
> forwarding 
> > plane - heading towards forwarding plane modeling; something that 
> > ForCES did a while ago.  It focuses on Layer-2 and does not 
> interact 
> > with the routing control plane - generally assuming that the routing
> > control protocol does not/should not exist.   
> 
> 
> Completely incorrect assumption sorry. OF does not assume L2 
> as an example I have been working on routing applications 
> over OF based data plane for over a year now.
> 
> OF separates control plane including ability to run routing 
> protocols from forwarding entities. That's the most important point.
> 
> Hybrid work actually does not help too much .. Especially the 
> integrated effort. Retrieving state is not a focus as the 
> assumption is that such state is known in the controller. 
> However state validation or verification is something that OF 
> need to pay more attention to - no question.
> 
> Btw .. If IETF magically does something to equipment vendors 
> so they will ship FORCEs enabled platforms I am all game. 
> That would be productive. IRS as of now is more to mud the 
> water then to come with an alternative to Forces or OF.
> 

Agree.

		jak

> Best regards,
> R.
> 
> 
> 
> > Yes, there is nascent
> > work on hybrid OpenFlow switches - but that is very far 
> from a model 
> > based on USING the router's OS and routing capabilities and handling
> > multiple applications installing state.   Retrieving state 
> is also not
> > a focus in Openflow.
> > 
> > On the upper layer, ONF is starting to tentatively talk about 
> > northbound APIs - which are from OpenFlow controllers up towards 
> > orchestrators or applications.
> > 
> > I  don't, personally, think that IRS should cover the latter upper 
> > layer - though a translation layer and thinking through the 
> network OS 
> > abstractions is certainly interesting and part of the ecosystem.
> > 
> > Would you care to clearly clarify your concerns and 
> assumptions about 
> > intentions?
> > 
> > The two drafts work at defining what IRS should be; I think 
> that there 
> > is a clear difference in approach and intended functionality from 
> > OpenFlow.
> > 
> > Surely you aren't suggesting that the IETF should not do 
> anything in 
> > this space because OpenFlow might get around to it someday?
> > 
> > Alia
> > 
> > On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Robert Raszuk 
> <robert@raszuk.net>; wrote:
> >> hi Nitin,
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> So IRS needs to define interfaces for both the lower 
> layer and the upper layer.
> >> 
> >> That's precisely what openflow protocol does. Thx for 
> confirming clearly the intentions ;).
> >> 
> >> Best regards,
> >> R.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> irs-discuss mailing list
> >> irs-discuss@ietf.org
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
> > _______________________________________________
> > irs-discuss mailing list
> > irs-discuss@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>