Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments
Edward Crabbe <edc@google.com> Thu, 30 August 2012 21:44 UTC
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References: <812700A304640D4292205D5E83FC59E1061C211D@p-embx01-eq.jnpr.net> <CAG=JvvjYk_E6+Qdidyyjc5oDss9HeA2aq2pt5ciQeX06fuiWsQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4d1reLL2_4KRb6yseJK9WTB47YzumMBGdu+UwcOWXxmE0M8Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAG=JvvjVhGsVcSzEFxDKKfNckQxgQiWeezWvwpcoAOSgOP--Nw@mail.gmail.com> <CAG4d1rd_p6x_+PsHWtsYU=oOCT-GnmnZNL+MHcJf4NEG5boP7A@mail.gmail.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE38014A33BC4A@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <CAG4d1reWGjUU-z=9Gx_MvetAWF6wM8oUMpQRc9hxOg1MU37X_w@mail.gmail.com> <A3C4E51A53661B4EBEE7C5F5E6FCDEB5025AB94FE6D2@USEXCHANGE.corp.extremenetworks.com> <CAG4d1rfD8_0WgzRqH-OVAxfn1RYNfY_ynwkcmqN3MBYyrn5TnQ@mail.gmail.com> <3512BB31280C39448A9880F61DD54CEB09C07E@xmb-aln-x09.cisco.com> <CAG4d1rcvk1RmRmrpCwiAGx9s0v3X9aPECdeF1Wz7WSuYwzdFKA@mail.gmail.com> <CACKN6JH8eiYty3QOZ+E5Nt0wO3nYn87yB3pKixJK-3dnaOXfLQ@mail.gmail.com> <CACKN6JFMZqOnHU=vEkx8WxwSLjg5MYY=-VoJ7uOt8SAzvbAT6Q@mail.gmail.com> <A3C4E51A53661B4EBEE7C5F5E6FCDEB5025AB94FE847@USEXCHANGE.corp.extremenetworks.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE38014A33C0A0@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <CAG4d1rehfWk-HX27eysze8zdDzjNk4h4wwj2zV6_WJWxoNxY8Q@mail.gmail.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE38014A33C26F@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550FB7B7B6@MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE38014A33C2BD@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F22C5413@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <B37E6A2CE5957F4E83C1D9845A0FFE38014A33C554@MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com> <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E09F22C55F2@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com> <CAG4d1rfEkxAu_XbeVN_76mw+=-Rm45-eveuKMWbeXBTuktrj_w@mail.gmail.com> <CACKN6JFNHSM=Tu=tPCUe7zWm1g9LRfa6Bv9kvr+uoriVhmLhBQ@mail.gmail.com> <C584046466ED224CA92C1BC3313B963E13F0B8C87F@INBANSXCHMBSA3.in.alcatel-lucent.com>
From: Edward Crabbe <edc@google.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 14:44:02 -0700
Message-ID: <CACKN6JG9MkNgVi0F4t7YFjsAFFfasGPsTkTJ5BDYV8ZZtq_-dw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)" <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com>
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Cc: "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org>, "UTTARO, JAMES" <ju1738@att.com>, "Shah, Himanshu" <hshah@ciena.com>, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments
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please define 'operational model' ( and 'large' :) . On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal) < pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > ** > > Hi,**** > > I believe that’s 10% of what overall work that router does today > w.r.t routing. I would like to see an operational model how such > centralized SPF can **** > > provide end-to-end convergence of large number of flows efficiently. **** > > ** ** > > Thanks,**** > > Pranjal**** > > ** ** > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Edward Crabbe [mailto:edc@google.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 30, 2012 11:59 AM > *To:* Alia Atlas > *Cc:* **Dutta, Pranjal K** (Pranjal); UTTARO, JAMES; **Shah, Himanshu**; * > *irs-discuss@ietf.org > ** > *Subject:* Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments > **** > > ** ** > > Alia;**** > > ** ** > > If there is **** > > ** ** > > a) a mechanism for installing routes, pbr or otherwise, which recurse to > directly connected nexthops**** > > b) a mechanism for gathering topological information**** > > ** ** > > then you've inherently enabled centralized spf. **** > > ** ** > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> wrote:**** > > I haven't seen a good description of what is intended or desired by > moving the SPF functionality to a centralized location. Clearly such > centralization can have a very bad impact on convergence - which is a > strong motivator for simultaneously computing fast-reroute > alternatives (with guaranteed coverage ala MRT) and installing both. > > I don't see IRS as having a way of "turning off" the SPF computation > in the IGP; a different lobotomized IGP protocol/process would be > needed. > > Alia**** > > > On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:14 PM, **Dutta, Pranjal K** (Pranjal) > <pranjal.dutta@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > "LSDB (I saw an email which talks about reducing IGP to link > >> distribution protocol and running SPF in centralized network > >> controller)" > > > > I have seen discussions in the past on this and in fact I didn't get > precisely what is meant. If anybody in the list could brief very > > precisely that would help a lot. > > > > Here is my understanding - the routers would do LSA/LSP flooding for > OSPF/ISIS as it is done today. So routers would build neighboring > relationship/adjacencies to participate in flooding and each router builds > its LSDB. > > > > Then the IRS "application" would track LSDB changes and pull up the > "diffs" from each router (thru "controller") whenever there is a change. > The application would compute SPF on behalf of each router (LSDB). The > result of the compute would be pushed by application to each Router (thru > controller) and inject entries into RIB. > > > > Is that correct? How different this going to be from PCE? > > > > If this is correct then perhaps we would like to ask what are the > scalability numbers in LSDB we are talking about? > > > > The "application" would be running in a high performance server and so > SPF compute there is not an issue and perhaps it is good way to synchronize > FIB update (to a certain extent) to avoid u-loops etc. > > > > But when we are managing all routers in the purview of the application, > the computing power in each router is not uniform. To be realistic, I have > some concerns on how much "real-timeness" we could achieve between > application and controllers on such proposals, esp. when scaling numbers > are high. This leads to higher time lag on inconsistency between > application SPF compute and FIB update. It's almost like the classic "slow > peering" issues with TCP like protocols - the high performance peer is > slowed down by low performance peer. > > > > Static route interface is good thing because it is a state that persists > longer. > > > > IGPs may be deployed in very dynamic environments where tight coupling > is desirable between SPF compute and FIB update. In scaled environments the > issue is less about SPF compute time and is more about synchronizing the > FIB. > > > > Running on-demand CSPF by IRS application may be fine because of > persistency of RSVP-TE tunnels in dynamic environments. > > > > I apologize if I misunderstood the intent. > > > > Thanks, > > Pranjal**** > > ---snip---**** > > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss**** > > ** ** >
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Gert Grammel
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Gert Grammel
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Lin Han
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Lin Han
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Lin Han
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Gert Grammel
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Scott Whyte
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Gert Grammel
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Scott Whyte
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Olen Stokes
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments David Lake (dlake)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments David Lake (dlake)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Olen Stokes
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments David Lake (dlake)
- Re: [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Olen Stokes
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Robert Raszuk
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments UTTARO, JAMES
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Lin Han
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Ramon Casellas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Shah, Himanshu
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- [irs-discuss] 答复: IRS comments Mach Chen
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] 答复: IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: IRS comments Mach Chen
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: IRS comments Alia Atlas
- [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: 答复: IRS comments Mach Chen
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: IRS comments Thomas Nadeau
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Acee Lindem
- Re: [irs-discuss] 答复: 答复: IRS comments Susan Hares
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Dutta, Pranjal K (Pranjal)
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Edward Crabbe
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS comments Thomas Nadeau