Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted

Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Tue, 31 July 2012 16:30 UTC

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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:30:34 -0400
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: James Kempf <james.kempf@ericsson.com>
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Cc: Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@juniper.net>, "irs-discuss@ietf.org" <irs-discuss@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
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Hi James,

This is one of the key differences - ForCES is about programming the
forwarding plane.  IRS is about interfaces to the routing system - the
lowest it goes is to the RIB layer.  IMHO, this gives good control and
abstraction - no need to model forwarding plane differences.  That's
what the router OS is for.

I do discuss this briefly in the IRS problem-statement.
I'd also be happy to chat between WGs.

Alia

On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 12:26 PM, James Kempf <james.kempf@ericsson.com>; wrote:
> Hi Alia,
>
> With respect to the interfaces defined in RFC 5810, it seems to me that IRS is not proposing to replace existing routing protocols (OSPF, IS-IS) so it seems it would be the Fp interface. But I have not studied the Forces docs in detail recently so I may be in error.
>
>                 jak
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:53 PM
>> To: James Kempf
>> Cc: Thomas Nadeau; irs-discuss@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
>>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> The routing system components are certainly part of a
>> router's control plane - but not all of it.  The idea of IRS
>> involves sub-interfaces to the different layers in the routing system.
>>
>> Can you clarify what you are asking as it relates to ForCES and IRS?
>> I don't feel that we're on the same page yet.
>>
>> Alia
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 6:48 PM, James Kempf
>> <james.kempf@ericsson.com>; wrote:
>> > Hi Alia,
>> >
>> > Perhaps you can explain to me the difference between the
>> state involved in "the routing system (FIB, IGPs, BGP,
>> RSVP-TE, etc.)" and the control plane? The last time I
>> looked, these protocols were all involved in routing control
>> and therefore could reasonably be characterized as components
>> of the control plane, IMHO.
>> >
>> >                 jak
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Alia Atlas [mailto:akatlas@gmail.com]
>> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 3:27 PM
>> >> To: James Kempf
>> >> Cc: Thomas Nadeau; irs-discuss@ietf.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
>> >>
>> >> Hi James,
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for your thoughts.   Streaming (as I've heard) is
>> not as good a
>> >> description of the desired interface attributes as
>> described in Sec
>> >> 1.1, the functional overview.
>> >>
>> >> IRS is NOT about having interfaces to the forwarding plane.  That's
>> >> what ForCES is focused on.   This is about communication
>> to a router
>> >> to install/retrieve routing state into the routing system
>> (FIB, IGPs,
>> >> BGP, RSVP-TE, etc.)   IRS is NOT splitting the control
>> plane from the
>> >> router.
>> >>
>> >> Are you suggesting that ForCES should drastically expand its scope?
>> >>
>> >> Before we start debating what and whether to expand existing
>> >> protocols, I think we need a common understanding of the problem
>> >> we're trying to solve and the related framework.
>> >>
>> >> Alia
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 6:11 PM, James Kempf
>> >> <james.kempf@ericsson.com>; wrote:
>> >> > I don't understand why streaming is specified in this
>> >> draft. And I don't understand why this draft isn't put in
>> the Forces
>> >> framework. Forces is a framework explicitedly designed for
>> device to
>> >> controller communication. Its major drawback it that it is a
>> >> framework with a hole in the middle, in that there are no
>> specified
>> >> devices. This draft would fill that hole.
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't think it is necessary to have a problem statement
>> >> for router state update. Forces has already established that
>> >> splitting the control plane into a separate device is, in
>> some cases,
>> >> an attractive design option. So I think this should be
>> submitted to
>> >> the Forces working group, or, at least, recast in the Forces
>> >> framework.
>> >> >
>> >> >                 jak
>> >> >
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org
>> >> >> [mailto:irs-discuss-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Nadeau
>> >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 11:18 AM
>> >> >> To: irs-discuss@ietf.org
>> >> >> Subject: [irs-discuss] IRS Problem Statement Posted
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Please review and discuss.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Tom, Alia, Ward
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://lucidvision.com/draft-atlas-irs-problem-statement-00.txt
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> irs-discuss@ietf.org
>> >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
>> >> >>
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>> >>
>>