Re: [irs-discuss] IRS problem statement and NETCONF/YANG
Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com> Tue, 31 July 2012 16:56 UTC
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:56:04 -0400
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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
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Subject: Re: [irs-discuss] IRS problem statement and NETCONF/YANG
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Hi Juergen, Thanks very much for your informative email. I certainly have more reading to do on NetConf and would welcome help in correcting the perspective in the appendix about NetConf. It sounds like NetConf could be a good candidate protocol when we get there. As I've said, we've got to focus on clearly describing the problem and vertical use-cases; then we should be able to think about and evaluate protocol possibilities. Of course, it'd be useful to have a good accurate and up-to-date understanding of the capabilities of each protocol before then. If you have time and interest, I'd be happy to chat off-line tomorrow and have more NetConf/Yang clue installed. Alia On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > Hi, > > reading through the problem statement posted at > > http://lucidvision.com/draft-atlas-irs-problem-statement-00.txt > > I noticed a number of statements concerning NETCONF and YANG that > probably need to be corrected. For more background where NETCONF and > YANG is, you may want to consult the tutorial slides posted at > > http://cnds.eecs.jacobs-university.de/slides/2012-ietf-84-netconf-yang.pdf > > and consult the documents referenced in the slides. Some more detailed > comments: > > : Finally, the IETF's Network Configuration (or NetConf) protocol has > : made many strides at overcoming most of the limitations around > : configuration that were just described. However, the lack of > : standard data models have hampered the adoption of NetConf. > > The NETMOD working group has been chartered to work on common core > data models and currently has core data models for the configuration > of network interfaces, ip interfaces and a core routing configuration > data model in WG last call: > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-04 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-ip-cfg-05 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-interfaces-cfg-05 > > : While NetConf has solved many of the deficiencies present in SNMP in > : terms of configuration, it still does not satisfy a number of > : requirements needed to manage today's routing information. First, > : the lack of standard data models have hampered the adoption of > : NetConf; a significant amount of per-vendor customization is still > : needed. The transport mechanisms that are currently defined (e.g., > : SOAP/BEEP) for NetConf are not those commonly used by modern > : applications (e.g., ReST or JSON). > > The default to implement transport for NETCONF is SSH. There is > another transport over TLS. The BEEP and SOAP transports are on their > way to be declared historic. That said, there is work underway to > define a JSON / REST API to YANG modelled NETCONF data stores. > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bierman-netconf-yang-api-00 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-yang-json-00 > > : NetConf primarily facilitates configuration rather than reading of > : state or handling asynchronous events. > > Not sure what primarily facilitates means but NETCONF does support all > three functions. NETCONF allows read access to all existing SNMP > instrumentation of devices. > > : NetConf matches up to the key needed aspects as follows > : > : Multiple Simultaneous Asynchronous Operations: Not Possible > > The NETCONF protocol tags RPC invocations with a message-id that is > echoed back in RPC replies, allowing asynchronous operations. NETCONF > also provides global and partial locks to properly deal concurrent > operations received via multiple channels. > > : Configuration Not Re-Processed: Not Possible > > I simply do not understand the definition of this aspect. You document > says: > > : Configuration Not Re-Processed: When an IRS operation is processed, > : it does not require that any of the configuration be processed. > : I.e., the desired behavior is orthogonal to the static > : configuration. > > A clarficiation is needed what you mean with this. Anyway, NETCONF > distinguishes between different configuration data stores. If you want > to distinguish between changes that affect only the current behaviour > but not say the next startup behaviour (i.e. the changes do not > persist), then this is already supported by NETCONF. > > Perhaps your concern is that making a change requires to reprocess the > whole configuration? In that case, this is clearly not required > anywhere by the NETCONF protocol specification. In fact, the > edit-config operation allows to send detailed configuration change > sets to a NETCONF server. > > : Duplex: Not Possible - strict pull model. > > NETCONF does have support for event notifications that are pushed by > the device. The initiation of the session is client to server for the > existing transports - but this is mostly a property of the transports. > Some vendors use non-standard extensions for the SSH transport to > support device initiated sessions. > > : High-Throughput: Unlikely - Can depend on configuration size > > Well, this is ill defined in the first place. Your definition is: > > : High-Throughput: At a minimum, the IRS Agent and associated router > : should be able to handle hundreds of simple operations per second. > > So what is a "simple operation"? I am rather optimistic that it is > possible to do some "simple operation" in NETCONF at the requested > speed. To be useful, you really need to be more precise. > > : Responsive: Unlikely - Can depend on configuration size > > Again, this is under specified. Your definition is: > > : Responsive: It should be possible to complete simple operations > : within a sub-second time-scale. > > I am sure NETCONF servers easily respond within a sub-second > time-scale. We have several implementors here at the IETF, I > am sure they can provide more concrete information about the > efficiency aspects. > > : Multi-Channel: Not Possible > > NETCONF allows to use multiple SSH or TLS sessions (hence multiple TCP > sessions) and it provides the needed coordination primitives. In > addition, the SSH transport can be used to run multiple SSH channels > multiplexed over a single TCP session. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 <http://www.jacobs-university.de/> > _______________________________________________ > irs-discuss mailing list > irs-discuss@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/irs-discuss
- [irs-discuss] IRS problem statement and NETCONF/Y… Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS problem statement and NETCO… Alia Atlas
- Re: [irs-discuss] IRS problem statement and NETCO… Juergen Schoenwaelder