[irtf-discuss] Re: [E-impact] Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

["Ali Rezaki (Nokia)" <[e-mail]>]

Dear Dan, Dirk,

Thanks very much for your further interventions on the ‘climate change adaptation’ aspects.

The “Internet Resilience” research item in the charter text reads as “Understanding new methodologies, architectures and strategies to ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges,” includes “climate change” under the “sustainability challenges”. I will update this item further, to make climate change more explicitly mentioned.

Climate change mitigation and climate change adaptation are often seen as the two sides of the same coin, mutually reinforcing each other. However, sometimes, to build resilience to adapt to the changing climate, more resource heavy methods could be used such as redundant hardware or more weather hardened products which in turn includes high embedded (embodied) emissions and materials use, which in turn are detrimental to environmental sustainability. The last part of the sentence “…considering resource impacts, carbon efficiency and operational complexity.” is calling for attention to this challenge. I will make this more readable in the updated text.

Thanks a lot again.

Best regards,

Ali


From: Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2024 8:58 AM
To: Dan York <york=[e-mail]>
Cc: Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [E-impact] Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

Don,

Got your point and agree that those aspects are complementary, best captured in a separate bullet text; on that, I do like and support your suggested wording for it.

Best,

Dirk
From: Dan York <york=[e-mail]<mailto:york=[e-mail]>>
Sent: 04 November 2024 20:00
To: Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Cc: Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: Re: [E-impact] Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

Dirk,

Actually, I think I’m on a slightly different path. I certainly like your point about carbon reduction and your revised bullet text in your subsequent message seems good for that goal.

My interest is more operational - how do we keep the Internet ON in the face of a changing climate? In the UN’s climate language, they usually talk about “mitigation”, i.e. how to reduce the impact of <X> on the climate, and “adaptation”, i.e. how <X> adapts to continue to work. I’m interested in the adaptation side.

So, IF there is interest in including this in the scope of the charter and RG, then a bullet might be something like:

 - Understanding new methodologies, architectures and strategies to ensure Internet resilience and continued operations in the face of a changing climate.

And research in that area could be around this general area and what solutions people are finding.

My 2 cents,
Dan


On Nov 3, 2024, at 10:24 AM, Dirk Trossen <dirk.trossen=[e-mail]<mailto:dirk.trossen=[e-mail]>> wrote:

All,

Chiming in at this stage, I am glad to see the attempt to tackle this highly important topic as a possible RG!

But I wanted to hook into the same point raised by Dan, namely soliciting more prominently research work that aims at changing key networking functions towards a clear goal of carbon reduction. To me, the point quoted by Dan below is somewhat too broad and implicit in regards to the key action needed to improve on the Internet’s footprint, namely  carbon reduction (my cynical me may position recent approaches to fire up nuclear reactors to ensure DC power supplies as a means to “ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges”).

Specifically, I would like to see carbon reduction more clearly and explicitly fleshed out in the text. Even carbon awareness, while clearly needed, is not going far enough for me. The GREEN WG and other work on measurements already target increased awareness but I feel that an RG in the IRTF ought be bolder in soliciting work that actively seeks to REDUCE the carbon footprint, including to reflect this goal more explicitly in the mission and possibly even name of the RG; I personally find “sustainability and the Internet” too broad, requiring text that handprint is not the focus but footprint is, all of which an explicit focus on carbon reduction of its enabling methods would make clearer. To bring a suggestion on this to the table, I can offer even two: CARENET (carbon-reduced networking) or CARING (carbon-reduced Internet for the Next Generation).


Best,

Dirk
P.S.: maybe folks like Dan and myself are possibly looking for an RG that might go alongside a more governance/policy/regulation level SUSTAIN RG, one that is more explicit in the solicitation of works that we could position along the pathway from emerging research towards the operational community in the IETF.



From: Dan York <york=[e-mail]<mailto:york=[e-mail]>>
Sent: 01 November 2024 19:49
To: Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]<mailto:ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [E-impact] Re: Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

Ali,

This is great! I very much like an RG on this topic. The draft charter looks good. My one question is - do you also see this RG encouraging research into how to *adapt* the Internet’s infrastructure to continue to operate in the face of climate change? i.e. what do we need to do to ensure the Internet’s operations? How do we "keep it on" while the climate is changing?

I read your last bullet under Research Areas that way:

  *   Understanding new methodologies, architectures and strategies to ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges, considering resource impacts, carbon efficiency and operational complexity.
… but I wasn’t 100% sure. Is this what you mean by this bullet?

Thanks for leading on this,
Dan

--
Dan York, Senior Advisor  |  Internet Society
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> | [phone] | https://mastodon.social/@danyork

<image001.png>
internetsociety.org<https://www.internetsociety.org/> | @internetsociety<https://twitter.com/internetsociety>


On Oct 31, 2024, at 7:39 PM, Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]<mailto:ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>> wrote:

Dear E-impact, Green WG, IRTF-discuss Lists, Colleagues,

We have been working on a draft charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG). Please find enclosed v1.0 of this draft charter proposal for your review and feedback.

We have scheduled a Public Side Meeting at IETF 121 in Dublin, on 6 November 2024, at 14:30 GMT (UTC+0) in Wicklow Hall 2A, to present the background and details of the charter and to have an open discussion. We are aware that public side meetings are difficult to attend remotely. Accordingly, we will arrange an additional on-line meeting about a week after the IETF 121 to ensure adequate access for remote participation as well.

We have created a GitHub repository for the development of the charter with community feedback and the management of the side meeting at: https://github.com/rezaki-ali/IRTF_SUSTAIN_RG. The draft charter is available in this repository as well.

We would greatly appreciate it if you would be able to review the draft charter proposal for the SUSTAIN RG and kindly share your feedback with us please. We would also be very happy to see you at the SUSTAIN RG Public Side Meeting at IETF 121 and/or at the on-line meeting to be arranged just after IETF 121.

Many thanks to Colin Perkins, Jari Arkko, Suresh Krishnan, Noa Zilberman, Jukka Manner, Romain Jakob, Michael Welzl, Chris Adams for their review of earlier drafts and their feedback. Many thanks to Dirk Kutscher, David R. Oran, Lixia Zhang, Kurtis Heimerl for their input on priorities and perspectives.

Looking forward to developing the SUSTAIN RG charter with your contributions.

Many thanks and best regards,

Ali and Eve

<IRTF_Proposed_Research_Group_SUSTAIN_RG_Draft_Charter_v1_0.pdf>--
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