Subject: Re: [irtf-discuss] [arch-d] Why closed IAB workshops ? Re: Call for Papers: Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID), 2021

From: Stewart Bryant <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 16:38:21 +0100

Unless the meeting is held under Chatham House rules, it should be as open as the resources allow.

Since we are meeting virtually for the foreseeable future a YouTube feed would be relatively simple and allow anyone interested to list first hand to the proceedings.

- Stewart

> On 27 Aug 2021, at 15:43, Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]> wrote:
> 
> Dear IAB, *:
> 
> I wonder why IAB workshops continue to be closed/invitation only alone,
> and would encourage IEF/IAB to rethink this policy in the face of our evolving
> technology opportunities and policy challenges.
> 
> I think i understand all the reasons  why this makes sense for
> active participation and even in-person passive participation (org, cost, focus),
> but:
> 
> I would very much like to see a policy where all IETF activities are
> as public as possible. In the case of workshops where there is no strong
> content benefit of chatham house rules or similar concerns, and where
> there is appropriate online tooling anyhow, i think there can and should
> always be a live-stream to live listen into (but not participate actively)
> such an event.
> 
> If for example webex is used, this is easily possible though webex/youtube
> integration, so that passive observers can use youtube to listen live.
> 
> To bring up the dreaded topic again as another example: I do not know
> if a closed IAB workshop would be legal place for a US person to provide
> technology ideas when there are contributors in such an invittion only
> workshop from entities on the US governments EAR entities list. I for once
> can not read into EAR 734.7 that such an event is covered by it.
> I certainly would love to see a statement of the IETF lawyer about this.
> 
> Cheers
>    Toerless
> 
> P.S.: This aparticularily is one workshop where i wouldn't have anything
> active to contribute, but where i am quite certain that i would learn
> a lot more following the discussion in the room listening in remotely than
> just reading a workshop report later. So admittedly, this announcement
> triggered my mail from self-interest, but i have been disappointed by
> this IAB policy for a long time already.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 10:15:47AM -0700, IAB Executive Administrative Manager wrote:
>> Show me the numbers: Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID), 2021
>> 
>> Web Page: https://www.iab.org/activities/workshops/aid/
>> 
>> The IETF as an international Standards Developing Organization hosts 
>> diverse data on the history, development, and current activities in the 
>> development and standardization of Internet protocols and its 
>> institutions. A large portion of this data is publicly available, yet 
>> this data is arguably underutilized as a tool to inform the work in the 
>> IETF and research on topics like Internet governance and trends in ICT 
>> standard-setting.
>> 
>> This workshop aims to enable engineers and researchers alike to mine the 
>> IETF's data sources in order to explore trends through the analysis of 
>> IETF data, such as email archives 
>> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/>, I-Ds 
>> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/ids/>, RFCs 
>> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/>, and the datatracker 
>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/>. This work can be used to derive 
>> insights into the inner workings of the process of standardization, 
>> participation, and governance[1]. This workshop aims to bring together 
>> people who have already analyzed IETF data, those who are interested in 
>> the analysis of IETF data, and those who are interested in the results 
>> of such analysis as input for improvement of the IETF's work.
>> 
>> We invite the research community, IETF participants, and others with an 
>> interest in the data collected by the IETF, its protocols, and 
>> participants, to submit a contribution to the workshop. Furthermore, we 
>> also welcome participants who are interested in the analysis that could 
>> be performed based on this data as well as those contributing 
>> considerations regarding future collection and handling of IETF data.
>> 
>> Possible avenues for explorations include, but are not limited to:
>> 
>>  A. What are patterns for participation in the IETF (what are 
>>     predictors for a long and productive tenure, when do people stop 
>>     participating, what is needed to successfully produce RFCs)?
>>  B. How is the IETF community developing (i.e., affiliations, 
>>     publications, language, nationality, leadership positions)?
>>  C. How do affiliations develop in the IETF (i.e., does a change in 
>>     affiliation translate into a change in behavior, is there a 
>>     relation between affiliation and leadership positions and/or 
>>     centrality, what is the affiliation distribution per area and/or 
>>     WG)?
>>  D. What social dynamics (gender, nationality, income, occupation, and 
>>     other social dynamics) are not captured by IETF data and what data 
>>     and research approaches are needed to develop further insights in 
>>     the social dynamics of standardization?
>>  E. How productive and effective is the IETF, with respect to 
>>     documents, pages, words, letters and in comparison the overall 
>>     activities e.g. on mailing lists?
>>  F. How well is the outcome of the IETF used, e.g,. based on references 
>>     to RFCs in research papers, product manuals, or other sources?
>>  G. What data would be relevant to collect that is not collected yet or 
>>     what should be considered with respect to handling of personal data 
>>     during the data collection and research.
>>  H. How effective is the IETF's consensus-based decision making 
>>     process? Is there evidence that documents receive broad and 
>>     effective reviews? Are experts with relevant expertise engaging 
>>     with developing standards in a timely manner?
>> 
>> Participation and Submission
>> 
>> People interested in participation are requested to submit short 
>> position papers (500-1000 words). The paper can cover one or multiple of 
>> the following points, but this list should not be considered exhaustive:
>> 
>>  1. Research questions and interests in IETF data; indication which 
>>     question should be answered, the data needed to do so, and how 
>>     these insights could be used to improve processes and operations;
>>  2. Description of the IETF data they aim to analyze or the information 
>>     they would like to see made available to inform their work (such as 
>>     mailing list archives, or participation data obtained through the 
>>     datatracker) and their methods for doing so (see footnote 1);
>>  3. Potential and preliminary findings; and how those insights could 
>>     either benefit leadership, WG chairs, and authors/participants, 
>>     and/or society and industry at large;
>>  4. Potential or preliminary findings and how those add novel insights 
>>     to ongoing academic debates.
>> 
>> Proposals for data analysis should also contain a brief consideration of 
>> any related ethics and privacy issues. The basic principles of ethical 
>> research are outlined in the Belmont Report2 (covering e.g., respect for 
>> persons, beneficence, and justice) and/or institutional ethics 
>> guidelines.
>> 
>> The workshop will be invitation-only. The organizers will decide whom to 
>> invite based on the submissions received. Therefore, please indicate 
>> your interest by submitting a research proposal by September 29, 2021 to 
>> [email-masked].
>> 
>> The Program Committee members are Niels ten Oever (chair, University of 
>> Amsterdam), Colin Perkins (chair, IRTF, University of Glasgow), Corinne 
>> Cath (chair, Oxford Internet Institute), Mirja Kühlewind (IAB, 
>> Ericsson), Zhenbin Li (IAB, Huawei), Wes Hardaker (IAB, USC/ISI).
>> 
>> All inputs submitted and considered relevant will be published on the 
>> workshop web page. Sessions will be organized according to content, and 
>> not every accepted submission or invited attendee will have an 
>> opportunity to present as the intent is to foster discussion and not 
>> simply to have a sequence of presentations.
>> 
>> Position papers from those unable to attend in person are encouraged. A 
>> workshop report will be published afterwards.
>> 
>> Logistics
>> 
>>   • Submissions Due: 29 September 2021
>>   • Invitations Issued by: 15 October 2021
>>   • Workshop Date: November 29 – December 3 2021
>>   • Location: Online and at the University of Amsterdam (COVID-19 
>>     permitting).
>> 
>> The workshop will consist of three parts:
>> 
>>  1. opening workshop (Monday)
>>  2. hackathon (Tuesday – Thursday morning)
>>  3. closing event (Thursday afternoon)
>> 
>> Feel free to contact the program committee with any further questions 
>> (including questions related to available data or expected outcomes): 
>> [email-masked].
>> 
>> -----
>> [1] Examples of such approaches are: 
>> https://www.arkko.com/tools/docstats.html, 
>> http://datactive.github.io/bigbang/, 
>> https://csperkins.org/research/protocol-standards/2020-12-10-ignacio-iesg-talk/2020-12-10_IESG-50-years-IETF-send.pdf, 
>> https://sodestream.github.io/impact-of-early-engagement-on-longevity-of-ietf-participation.html
>> 
>> [2] https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/sites/default/files/the-belmont-report-508c_FINAL.pdf
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> [email-masked]
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
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