[irtf-discuss] Re: [E-impact] Re: Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

["Ali Rezaki (Nokia)" <[e-mail]>]

Dear Dirk,

Thanks very much for both of your e-mails and for bringing up this very important aspect of sustainability and your proposals to improving the associated text in the charter.

In the current research areas listed in the charter, the first item that states “Reduction of the Internet footprint (environmental, social, economic)”  in fact covers the reduction of the carbon emissions caused by Internet infrastructure and operations. Internet environmental footprint covers climate impact (GHG emissions), circularity and biodiversity loss, prominently. You are absolutely right that currently, ITU-T singles out carbon emissions reductions as priority number 1 for the ICT sector. So, the topic is of great importance for the RG.

As you also noted, we tried to capture this in sub-bullet 3 of the first research area but we will improve it with your suggested text to emphasize that we are looking for both radically new and experimental techniques and methodologies as well as those that can be implemented on the existing set-up, which was indeed our proposed coverage. The RG is a place for research and exploration.

One last aspect is about terminology: “carbon intensity” is about the energy mix used, which is also referred to as emission intensity and emission factor, is a measure of the carbon-equivalent emission of consumed electricity, i.e., grams of carbon-equivalent per kilowatt hour (gCO2e/KWh). Carbon aware networking takes carbon intensity information to make routing and traffic steering decisions. Reducing carbon intensity is rather beyond the control of networking but reducing our carbon emissions certainly is.

One of the first things we want to do is to develop a common sustainability terminology and concepts reference.

Thanks very much once more for your engagement. Looking forward to discussing further on Wednesday’s side meeting.

Best regards,

Ali


From: Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2024 7:44 PM
To: Dan York <york=[e-mail]>; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]>; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: [E-impact] Re: Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

Dear all,

After the ultra-quick chat with and suggestion by Eve to send a possible rewording to the charter along the raised concern in my previous email, let me propose a more explicit “carbon reduction” text, revising the following text

  *   Understanding new methodologies, architectures and strategies to ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges, considering resource impacts, carbon efficiency and operational complexity.
towards

“Achieving quantifiable and verifiable carbon intensity reduction through new methodologies, architectures, algorithms, as well as protocols, which also lend themselves to experimental verification and eventual introduction to the operational community in the IETF”

This bullet item is in difference to bullet item 1, sub-item 3 in the charter, which I read as novel approaches to existing Internet technologies (such as presented in today’s ANRP’s presentation on carbon-aware routing).

I hope this helps and looking forward to the discussion on Wednesday.

Best,

Dirk


From: Dirk Trossen
Sent: 03 November 2024 16:25
To: 'Dan York' <york=[e-mail]<mailto:york=[e-mail]>>; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]<mailto:ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [E-impact] Re: Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

All,

Chiming in at this stage, I am glad to see the attempt to tackle this highly important topic as a possible RG!

But I wanted to hook into the same point raised by Dan, namely soliciting more prominently research work that aims at changing key networking functions towards a clear goal of carbon reduction. To me, the point quoted by Dan below is somewhat too broad and implicit in regards to the key action needed to improve on the Internet’s footprint, namely  carbon reduction (my cynical me may position recent approaches to fire up nuclear reactors to ensure DC power supplies as a means to “ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges”).

Specifically, I would like to see carbon reduction more clearly and explicitly fleshed out in the text. Even carbon awareness, while clearly needed, is not going far enough for me. The GREEN WG and other work on measurements already target increased awareness but I feel that an RG in the IRTF ought be bolder in soliciting work that actively seeks to REDUCE the carbon footprint, including to reflect this goal more explicitly in the mission and possibly even name of the RG; I personally find “sustainability and the Internet” too broad, requiring text that handprint is not the focus but footprint is, all of which an explicit focus on carbon reduction of its enabling methods would make clearer. To bring a suggestion on this to the table, I can offer even two: CARENET (carbon-reduced networking) or CARING (carbon-reduced Internet for the Next Generation).


Best,

Dirk
P.S.: maybe folks like Dan and myself are possibly looking for an RG that might go alongside a more governance/policy/regulation level SUSTAIN RG, one that is more explicit in the solicitation of works that we could position along the pathway from emerging research towards the operational community in the IETF.



From: Dan York <york=[e-mail]<mailto:york=[e-mail]>>
Sent: 01 November 2024 19:49
To: Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]<mailto:ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Eve Schooler at Gmail <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: [E-impact] Re: Draft Charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG)

Ali,

This is great! I very much like an RG on this topic. The draft charter looks good. My one question is - do you also see this RG encouraging research into how to *adapt* the Internet’s infrastructure to continue to operate in the face of climate change? i.e. what do we need to do to ensure the Internet’s operations? How do we "keep it on" while the climate is changing?

I read your last bullet under Research Areas that way:

  *   Understanding new methodologies, architectures and strategies to ensure Internet resilience in the face of sustainability challenges, considering resource impacts, carbon efficiency and operational complexity.
… but I wasn’t 100% sure. Is this what you mean by this bullet?

Thanks for leading on this,
Dan

--
Dan York, Senior Advisor  |  Internet Society
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]> | [phone] | https://mastodon.social/@danyork

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internetsociety.org<https://www.internetsociety.org/> | @internetsociety<https://twitter.com/internetsociety>

On Oct 31, 2024, at 7:39 PM, Ali Rezaki (Nokia) <ali.rezaki=[e-mail]<mailto:ali.rezaki=[e-mail]>> wrote:

Dear E-impact, Green WG, IRTF-discuss Lists, Colleagues,

We have been working on a draft charter for an IRTF Proposed Research Group: Sustainability and the Internet Research Group (SUSTAIN RG). Please find enclosed v1.0 of this draft charter proposal for your review and feedback.

We have scheduled a Public Side Meeting at IETF 121 in Dublin, on 6 November 2024, at 14:30 GMT (UTC+0) in Wicklow Hall 2A, to present the background and details of the charter and to have an open discussion. We are aware that public side meetings are difficult to attend remotely. Accordingly, we will arrange an additional on-line meeting about a week after the IETF 121 to ensure adequate access for remote participation as well.

We have created a GitHub repository for the development of the charter with community feedback and the management of the side meeting at: https://github.com/rezaki-ali/IRTF_SUSTAIN_RG. The draft charter is available in this repository as well.

We would greatly appreciate it if you would be able to review the draft charter proposal for the SUSTAIN RG and kindly share your feedback with us please. We would also be very happy to see you at the SUSTAIN RG Public Side Meeting at IETF 121 and/or at the on-line meeting to be arranged just after IETF 121.

Many thanks to Colin Perkins, Jari Arkko, Suresh Krishnan, Noa Zilberman, Jukka Manner, Romain Jakob, Michael Welzl, Chris Adams for their review of earlier drafts and their feedback. Many thanks to Dirk Kutscher, David R. Oran, Lixia Zhang, Kurtis Heimerl for their input on priorities and perspectives.

Looking forward to developing the SUSTAIN RG charter with your contributions.

Many thanks and best regards,

Ali and Eve

<IRTF_Proposed_Research_Group_SUSTAIN_RG_Draft_Charter_v1_0.pdf>--
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