Re: [irtf-discuss] [Aid-workshop-pc] [arch-d] Why closed IAB workshops ? Re: Call for Papers: Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID), 2021

["\"Mirja Kühlewind (IETF)\"" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Toerless, hi Stewart,

We will publish the recordings after the workshop as we also did with the last workshop.

Mirja

> Am 27.08.2021 um 17:40 schrieb Stewart Bryant <[e-mail]>:
> 
> Unless the meeting is held under Chatham House rules, it should be as open as the resources allow.
> 
> Since we are meeting virtually for the foreseeable future a YouTube feed would be relatively simple and allow anyone interested to list first hand to the proceedings.
> 
> - Stewart
> 
> 
>> On 27 Aug 2021, at 15:43, Toerless Eckert <[e-mail]> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear IAB, *:
>> 
>> I wonder why IAB workshops continue to be closed/invitation only alone,
>> and would encourage IEF/IAB to rethink this policy in the face of our evolving
>> technology opportunities and policy challenges.
>> 
>> I think i understand all the reasons  why this makes sense for
>> active participation and even in-person passive participation (org, cost, focus),
>> but:
>> 
>> I would very much like to see a policy where all IETF activities are
>> as public as possible. In the case of workshops where there is no strong
>> content benefit of chatham house rules or similar concerns, and where
>> there is appropriate online tooling anyhow, i think there can and should
>> always be a live-stream to live listen into (but not participate actively)
>> such an event.
>> 
>> If for example webex is used, this is easily possible though webex/youtube
>> integration, so that passive observers can use youtube to listen live.
>> 
>> To bring up the dreaded topic again as another example: I do not know
>> if a closed IAB workshop would be legal place for a US person to provide
>> technology ideas when there are contributors in such an invittion only
>> workshop from entities on the US governments EAR entities list. I for once
>> can not read into EAR 734.7 that such an event is covered by it.
>> I certainly would love to see a statement of the IETF lawyer about this.
>> 
>> Cheers
>>   Toerless
>> 
>> P.S.: This aparticularily is one workshop where i wouldn't have anything
>> active to contribute, but where i am quite certain that i would learn
>> a lot more following the discussion in the room listening in remotely than
>> just reading a workshop report later. So admittedly, this announcement
>> triggered my mail from self-interest, but i have been disappointed by
>> this IAB policy for a long time already.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 10:15:47AM -0700, IAB Executive Administrative Manager wrote:
>>> Show me the numbers: Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID), 2021
>>> 
>>> Web Page: https://www.iab.org/activities/workshops/aid/
>>> 
>>> The IETF as an international Standards Developing Organization hosts 
>>> diverse data on the history, development, and current activities in the 
>>> development and standardization of Internet protocols and its 
>>> institutions. A large portion of this data is publicly available, yet 
>>> this data is arguably underutilized as a tool to inform the work in the 
>>> IETF and research on topics like Internet governance and trends in ICT 
>>> standard-setting.
>>> 
>>> This workshop aims to enable engineers and researchers alike to mine the 
>>> IETF's data sources in order to explore trends through the analysis of 
>>> IETF data, such as email archives 
>>> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/>, I-Ds 
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/ids/>, RFCs 
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/>, and the datatracker 
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/>. This work can be used to derive 
>>> insights into the inner workings of the process of standardization, 
>>> participation, and governance[1]. This workshop aims to bring together 
>>> people who have already analyzed IETF data, those who are interested in 
>>> the analysis of IETF data, and those who are interested in the results 
>>> of such analysis as input for improvement of the IETF's work.
>>> 
>>> We invite the research community, IETF participants, and others with an 
>>> interest in the data collected by the IETF, its protocols, and 
>>> participants, to submit a contribution to the workshop. Furthermore, we 
>>> also welcome participants who are interested in the analysis that could 
>>> be performed based on this data as well as those contributing 
>>> considerations regarding future collection and handling of IETF data.
>>> 
>>> Possible avenues for explorations include, but are not limited to:
>>> 
>>> A. What are patterns for participation in the IETF (what are 
>>>    predictors for a long and productive tenure, when do people stop 
>>>    participating, what is needed to successfully produce RFCs)?
>>> B. How is the IETF community developing (i.e., affiliations, 
>>>    publications, language, nationality, leadership positions)?
>>> C. How do affiliations develop in the IETF (i.e., does a change in 
>>>    affiliation translate into a change in behavior, is there a 
>>>    relation between affiliation and leadership positions and/or 
>>>    centrality, what is the affiliation distribution per area and/or 
>>>    WG)?
>>> D. What social dynamics (gender, nationality, income, occupation, and 
>>>    other social dynamics) are not captured by IETF data and what data 
>>>    and research approaches are needed to develop further insights in 
>>>    the social dynamics of standardization?
>>> E. How productive and effective is the IETF, with respect to 
>>>    documents, pages, words, letters and in comparison the overall 
>>>    activities e.g. on mailing lists?
>>> F. How well is the outcome of the IETF used, e.g,. based on references 
>>>    to RFCs in research papers, product manuals, or other sources?
>>> G. What data would be relevant to collect that is not collected yet or 
>>>    what should be considered with respect to handling of personal data 
>>>    during the data collection and research.
>>> H. How effective is the IETF's consensus-based decision making 
>>>    process? Is there evidence that documents receive broad and 
>>>    effective reviews? Are experts with relevant expertise engaging 
>>>    with developing standards in a timely manner?
>>> 
>>> Participation and Submission
>>> 
>>> People interested in participation are requested to submit short 
>>> position papers (500-1000 words). The paper can cover one or multiple of 
>>> the following points, but this list should not be considered exhaustive:
>>> 
>>> 1. Research questions and interests in IETF data; indication which 
>>>    question should be answered, the data needed to do so, and how 
>>>    these insights could be used to improve processes and operations;
>>> 2. Description of the IETF data they aim to analyze or the information 
>>>    they would like to see made available to inform their work (such as 
>>>    mailing list archives, or participation data obtained through the 
>>>    datatracker) and their methods for doing so (see footnote 1);
>>> 3. Potential and preliminary findings; and how those insights could 
>>>    either benefit leadership, WG chairs, and authors/participants, 
>>>    and/or society and industry at large;
>>> 4. Potential or preliminary findings and how those add novel insights 
>>>    to ongoing academic debates.
>>> 
>>> Proposals for data analysis should also contain a brief consideration of 
>>> any related ethics and privacy issues. The basic principles of ethical 
>>> research are outlined in the Belmont Report2 (covering e.g., respect for 
>>> persons, beneficence, and justice) and/or institutional ethics 
>>> guidelines.
>>> 
>>> The workshop will be invitation-only. The organizers will decide whom to 
>>> invite based on the submissions received. Therefore, please indicate 
>>> your interest by submitting a research proposal by September 29, 2021 to 
>>> [e-mail].
>>> 
>>> The Program Committee members are Niels ten Oever (chair, University of 
>>> Amsterdam), Colin Perkins (chair, IRTF, University of Glasgow), Corinne 
>>> Cath (chair, Oxford Internet Institute), Mirja Kühlewind (IAB, 
>>> Ericsson), Zhenbin Li (IAB, Huawei), Wes Hardaker (IAB, USC/ISI).
>>> 
>>> All inputs submitted and considered relevant will be published on the 
>>> workshop web page. Sessions will be organized according to content, and 
>>> not every accepted submission or invited attendee will have an 
>>> opportunity to present as the intent is to foster discussion and not 
>>> simply to have a sequence of presentations.
>>> 
>>> Position papers from those unable to attend in person are encouraged. A 
>>> workshop report will be published afterwards.
>>> 
>>> Logistics
>>> 
>>>  • Submissions Due: 29 September 2021
>>>  • Invitations Issued by: 15 October 2021
>>>  • Workshop Date: November 29 – December 3 2021
>>>  • Location: Online and at the University of Amsterdam (COVID-19 
>>>    permitting).
>>> 
>>> The workshop will consist of three parts:
>>> 
>>> 1. opening workshop (Monday)
>>> 2. hackathon (Tuesday – Thursday morning)
>>> 3. closing event (Thursday afternoon)
>>> 
>>> Feel free to contact the program committee with any further questions 
>>> (including questions related to available data or expected outcomes): 
>>> [e-mail].
>>> 
>>> -----
>>> [1] Examples of such approaches are: 
>>> https://www.arkko.com/tools/docstats.html, 
>>> http://datactive.github.io/bigbang/, 
>>> https://csperkins.org/research/protocol-standards/2020-12-10-ignacio-iesg-talk/2020-12-10_IESG-50-years-IETF-send.pdf, 
>>> https://sodestream.github.io/impact-of-early-engagement-on-longevity-of-ietf-participation.html
>>> 
>>> [2] https://www.hhs.gov/ohrp/sites/default/files/the-belmont-report-508c_FINAL.pdf
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IETF-Announce mailing list
>>> [e-mail]
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
>> 
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