Re: [Isis-wg] [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt

Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net> Thu, 15 February 2018 14:47 UTC

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To: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <ice@cisco.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>, "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>, Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com>, "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>, "arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com" <arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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From: Eric C Rosen <erosen@juniper.net>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/isis-wg/DDHJDJZx936Y_p6vrmQFST2VDSE>
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
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Ice's reasoning makes sense to me.

On 2/15/2018 3:11 AM, IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand) wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I support 16 bits because of the following reasons.
>
> For me it would make sense to align the Algorithm value to the "IGP 
> Algorithm" registry. This registry is defined in: 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-24#section-8.5 
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dospf-2Dsegment-2Drouting-2Dextensions-2D24-23section-2D8.5&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=wFHQGdbIofGfam7tl7rnRjckYdcPp1WR-BqnaNE1mV8&e=> 
>
>
> In my opinion, this is going to cover 90% of the use-cases because 
> BIER is defined to run over a unicast underlay, so what ever is done 
> for Unicast, it will work for BIER automatically (like Flex Algo), and 
> avoids to duplicate registries. However, this registry is also 8 bits. 
> That means there is no room for anything else and I already know there 
> are different options about this.
>
> To avoid an other long debate/fight over these 8 bits, lets get more 
> bits now so we don't corner our selfs. Its a minor change to the draft.
>
> Lets not start a debate now on how BAR is used, as I'm sure we will 
> not reach agreement  in time and we're gonna delay the IGP drafts. We 
> can start a discussion after the IGP draft are through and what all 
> the use-cases are we need to cover. I already look forward to those 
> discussions :-)
>
> Thx,
>
> Ice.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 15 Feb 2018, at 07:24, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> +1
>>
>> I’d really like to see justification for anything larger than 8 bits.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jeff
>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2018, at 18:30, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com 
>>> <mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree. As a point of reference, we've only have defined two IGP 
>>> algorithms so far and the segment routing draft dates back about 4 
>>> years.
>>>
>>> https://www.iana.org/assignments/igp-parameters/igp-parameters.xhtml#igp-algorithm-types 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.iana.org_assignments_igp-2Dparameters_igp-2Dparameters.xhtml-23igp-2Dalgorithm-2Dtypes&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=5yaJPFqWpr5V5oBQ4O7o779WCOla79NlPw5FEfmRAUY&e=>
>>>
>>> Even with more artistic freedom afforded to multicast,  I still 
>>> believe 256 standard algorithms are enough.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Acee
>>>
>>> On 2/14/18, 9:15 PM, "BIER on behalf of Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - 
>>> SG/Singapore)" <bier-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org> 
>>> on behalf of andrew.dolganow@nokia.com 
>>> <mailto:andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>   Guys,
>>>
>>>   I would think 8 bits are sufficient. Others (like SegRtg mentioned 
>>> below also use 8). 8 bits gives us tons of room to grow - especially 
>>> since we have only a single value defined currently (SFP 0). If we 
>>> have clear use cases that show us running out of 8 bits or getting 
>>> close to that we can/should discuss and evaluate extensions in light 
>>> of that but increasing the space "just in case" is not a prudent way 
>>> to go.
>>>
>>>   Andrew
>>>
>>>   -----Original Message-----
>>>   From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org>> 
>>> on behalf of Xiejingrong <xiejingrong@huawei.com 
>>> <mailto:xiejingrong@huawei.com>>
>>>   Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 5:06 PM
>>>   To: Arkadiy Gulko <arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com 
>>> <mailto:arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>>, "bier@ietf.org 
>>> <mailto:bier@ietf.org>" <bier@ietf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>>, 
>>> "isis-wg@ietf.org <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>" <isis-wg@ietf.org 
>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>>
>>>   Subject: Re: [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
>>>
>>>       Hi Arkadiy,
>>>
>>>       I checked the latest 
>>> <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-extensions-24> and 
>>> <draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15> for reference and 
>>> comparing, and they both use a 8 bits Algorithm.
>>>       One of the description: "Algorithm: Single octet identifying 
>>> the algorithm."
>>>
>>>       Interesting to use more than 8 bits for BIER's future 
>>> flexibility :-)
>>>
>>>       Regards,
>>>       XieJingrong
>>>
>>>
>>>       -----Original Message-----
>>>       From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com 
>>> <mailto:arkadiy.gulko@thomsonreuters.com>
>>>       Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:42 AM
>>>       To: bier@ietf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>; isis-wg@ietf.org 
>>> <mailto:isis-wg@ietf.org>
>>>       Subject: [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
>>>
>>>       Hello Working Group,
>>>       After initial discussions between multiple participants of the 
>>> working group, we consolidated that BIER's future flexibility would 
>>> be well served if we extend the IGP signaling BAR field to 16 bits. 
>>> We are currently reviewing various use-cases that can greatly 
>>> benefit from this enhancement.
>>>       I would appreciate if the proposed change could be considered 
>>> as part of IETF Last Call review.
>>>       Thanks,
>>>       Arkadiy
>>>
>>>
>>>       -----Original Message-----
>>>       From: BIER [mailto:bier-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
>>> internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>>       Sent: Friday, February 09, 2018 5:11 PM
>>>       To: i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>>>       Cc: bier@ietf.org <mailto:bier@ietf.org>
>>>       Subject: [Bier] I-D Action: draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
>>>
>>>
>>>       A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line 
>>> Internet-Drafts directories.
>>>       This draft is a work item of the Bit Indexed Explicit 
>>> Replication WG of the IETF.
>>>
>>>               Title           : BIER support via ISIS
>>>               Authors         : Les Ginsberg
>>>                                 Tony Przygienda
>>>                                 Sam Aldrin
>>>                                 Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
>>>           Filename        : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
>>>           Pages           : 10
>>>           Date            : 2018-02-09
>>>
>>>       Abstract:
>>>          Specification of an ISIS extension to support BIER domains 
>>> and sub-
>>>          domains.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dbier-2Disis-2Dextensions_&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=3qPmQav_QUBjHi7KygPVk9bIhVZ7TL2Z3xfHOo_Cjwc&e= 
>>>
>>>
>>>       There are also htmlized versions available at:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dbier-2Disis-2Dextensions-2D07&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=_nTFvlAW24snrkMm3aQ2uWLFsLCajYeW4HO3DdEiwvs&e=
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dbier-2Disis-2Dextensions-2D07&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=zHWCGuyM-GSX-slbFtCv4fs9ml5gPQBeXohosuyhpx4&e= 
>>>
>>>
>>>       A diff from the previous version is available at:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdiff-3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dietf-2Dbier-2Disis-2Dextensions-2D07&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=pDVWzZrYzGia4WKiA_cSF0P5isUmMeojSvHJIGgdOTk&e= 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time 
>>> of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at 
>>> tools.ietf.org 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tools.ietf.org&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=qZ3p2sAIpzRPXfiRBbzrB1rPAkaJXEKiz43EmIKO03Y&e=>.
>>>
>>>       Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=ftp-3A__ftp.ietf.org_internet-2Ddrafts_&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=wqMqmybm38ZiX4CuzJaNJPMea1Mf-pSgD-vdgAHk850&e= 
>>>
>>>
>>>       _______________________________________________
>>>       BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwICAg&c=4ZIZThykDLcoWk-GVjSLmy8-1Cr1I4FWIvbLFebwKgY&r=JA6g2ZDvIPLQHZqHQByKQq-jvOcxu4cQskARppQFqZc&m=TOz3rr3No8ReKzE_27M4FMDvmv6fa9xveuyL5HyTvYs&s=kxUz28mTxGjbNsEQMGi8SMZ93LSiMt_bMFzqkWJJZnU&e= 
>>>
>>>
>>>       _______________________________________________
>>>       BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=0xv4y5W1l17zAz77Pqu_Jjah0kcuvYCJnnZSv6lUBEU&e=>
>>>
>>>       _______________________________________________
>>>       BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=0xv4y5W1l17zAz77Pqu_Jjah0kcuvYCJnnZSv6lUBEU&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>>>   BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=0xv4y5W1l17zAz77Pqu_Jjah0kcuvYCJnnZSv6lUBEU&e=>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> BIER mailing list
>>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier 
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=0xv4y5W1l17zAz77Pqu_Jjah0kcuvYCJnnZSv6lUBEU&e=>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BIER mailing list
>> BIER@ietf.org <mailto:BIER@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_bier&d=DwMGaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=-DXB84eU9m4cIlq2OOcCJCQQAwJXQQswyu3F0kG0VNo&m=IpRPsLKtgfyfQk0dyhyVNsVupKQyUKWP_faic5jyDyo&s=0xv4y5W1l17zAz77Pqu_Jjah0kcuvYCJnnZSv6lUBEU&e=>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BIER mailing list
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