Re: [Isis-wg] [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt

Greg Shepherd <> Thu, 15 February 2018 17:20 UTC

Return-Path: <>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FDB12DB70; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:12 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.699
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key)
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gI7z_mEJ8mT8; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ( [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E86D12D775; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:09 -0800 (PST)
Received: by with SMTP id t126so1368226iof.4; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:09 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=3Tr0tgfgdFNQwibX+i5OSxhzfse+HA+EgRlmqxSOY58=; b=JjQ+FV75N14iIXlE7XSq4M9XxR1IpQezSXZTwhJOFDtX9PFZGgCaU4i/DnJbubWGXB RVB3QnsMclTMPlm/HxSvFa0Sq9oBZWxWqo2G33Gvb/pmr23rdPfZGncAbD0x/CgLb1vA ug7KS/j4VlhO9MKM34Rsxb+B34GUhYfOrBbSn9Nf3uIF/XX5OSdQubo/zApI6LgEenee C+H22M3Oryd9vy1KHyQ+wvaG6+Bk3kqjnIvQ1O6S/ap/QgGnT91/7OPTFVeVxK5Cq/bf 8sUwTMuhcLdEcZlz1jUvc5mfv2EuckFOc32gpB24PLj5w7i2y6nOR+d0TyMhZxc/UEYY arCw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3Tr0tgfgdFNQwibX+i5OSxhzfse+HA+EgRlmqxSOY58=; b=D326MrpVnOMSCzRbCkHA/kcOFJhyA7GTpajGfWSqM1XK9Zhp1Cpyr2sbIMSRffchmf qlM0wpzdXrpqrCHEp2qh6JryhZ/JM9+g8BL2jGsFZOUWg5AxtaTGNf7DvkGdnGe8pMN6 U9jvgRspA7MipmHZ2QmDfNVkp/tSBZQd4Ovpsh86e+r/t8thtg2PPlU7SEzLpU4us8qT ma3uBVHpUafuI785VoidWUp+e+Hs23lJFiKGfXffKBXgqikKXxeZHH1Vyvm9RhIUAjpk PGVcpHwVRh/fypPWhIn6ER6FfrissRtzjePJMZZHzuT35PvoSJTPKEuSjsMfx2p6oQCt Az+A==
X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPCQjaqsZyUkFnH3JRR8NExIgdWsKWK/Z4pF4KOCBJobybBeyYws m8TfPC2HkKB42nNIkyo6hrShoCX0Ehw0PYEtSWM=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226NSzFsO7l520vkFjZ1utaSKaz4Um01+BvWXu3iDQL96JVFKhkRDqUdf3SquIlUH2ZSYEF62GLc3gm4dpJBsTw=
X-Received: by with SMTP id n65mr4464597ioo.256.1518715208859; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:08 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by with HTTP; Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:07 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
From: Greg Shepherd <>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:20:07 -0800
Message-ID: <>
To: Tony Przygienda <>
Cc: Eric C Rosen <>, Xiejingrong <>, Jeff Tantsura <>, "" <>, "" <>, "" <>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11445fb48a0edd056543704e"
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] [Bier] WGLC : draft-ietf-bier-isis-extensions-07.txt
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 17:20:12 -0000

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Tony Przygienda <>

> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 8:38 AM, Greg Shepherd <> wrote:
>> For the record, there is no SR Registry. There is only an IGP Algo Type
>> Registry as defined in draft-ietf-ospr-segment-routing-extensions-24
>> section 8.5
> So is that a good idea, having multiple drafts in flight with fields
> expecting to have magic couplings to each other while leaving e'thing
> "unspecified" to "publish RFCs" while we "decide things later"?

That was a pivot, but still; there is no reference, there is no coupling.

Tangental: draft-ietf-ospr-segment-routing-extensions-24 has been around
for a while, and the IGP Algo registry will be tied to this draft and it's
fate. If anyone is expecting to use this registry outside of the scope of
this draft, it would be in their best interest to pull the registry
description out into a separate draft.

>> a)       No IGP or SR working group has any charter to mandate any of the
>>> BIER technology so as well-meant the suggestion seems to be, it has no
>>> standing in IETF working procedures as far as I can see unless according
>>> charters are extended by ADs. Unless I'm missing something here.
>> If a WG points to a registry of any kind, a draft is all that is needed
>> to justify an new entry in the registry.
> Forthcoming today as I said ... For all practical purposes having a
> _single value_ in a field that can accommodate more in the future can
> mandate a registry and we already have 0 BTW. And it looks we will/may have
> more so I can't follow the apparent logic here that we don't need a
> registry because "we don't have values today" but so we publish an RFC
> without registry which implies we don't need a registry later in case we
> have values?

>>> b)       More as a question: Can we even publish an RFC now
>>> (experimental) pointing to an SR draft as normative? And if, how do we move
>>> it to intended standards track unless SR draft is a standards RFC?
>> Nobody is asking to reference it now. The current issue on the table to
>> to leave it undefined with only default value, so let's stick with the
>> current issue.
> I leave it to the judgement of IESG and AD then whether they progress
> things to RFCs (intended for standards track) with undefined fields for
> which the "interpretations" will come later. The issue was here 6 months
> ago and was muscled, the issue is obviously now on an open consensus
> building list. It will not magically go away. I still see a registry as a
> long-time proven way to anchor multiple ideas coming into a technology
> safely and fail to understand how we have things that will be "aligned" but
> are not "depending to each other" while "documentations" are not
> "registries" from the continuation of your email, Greg ...  And I lived
> through enough codepoint squatting wars and WG charters stepping onto each
> others feet to not having the desire to have one more on my hands, hence I
> welcome the thread ...

Which was the agreement a few months ago. Let the IESG decide.


> --- tony