Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-shen-isis-geo-coordinates-03.txt

"Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> Thu, 24 August 2017 13:33 UTC

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE>
CC: "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Latitude/Longitude Granularity in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-shen-isis-geo-coordinates-03.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTHB7+oNaPq5QcWkq+45hfgHbw2KKTgtsA
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 13:33:26 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-shen-isis-geo-coordinates-03.txt
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Hi Peter, 

Thanks for your detailed response. One thing we decided since my original
query was to move the YANG geo-location type out of the
ietf-routing-types.yang model since we thought that we didn’t have enough
review and experience to model it correctly. We are going to put it in a
separate YANG model and, based on your response, there may be more than
one YANG type. 

We will be discussing this in the future.

Thanks,
Acee 

On 8/23/17, 10:40 AM, "Peter Lothberg" <roll@Stupi.SE> wrote:

>Acee,
>
>I missed this message as it was just text encoded, no attachments, my
>obsolete mail ui can't handle it...
>
>>Hi Peter,
>>
>>We wanted to assure that milliseconds of latitude/longitude offer
>>enough granularity for your applications. This slightly more than 3
>>cm granularity for latitude and slightly less the 3 cm granularity
>>for longitude. 
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Acee
>
>We have Geo coordinates to form a graph over the network, from cables
>and ducts in the ground to the wiring inside a CO/POP/Datacenter.
>
>As Vint Cerf says we need to bring IPv6 to the planet as soon as
>March, what we need to future proof this is a format that allows for
>the following;
>
>([Galaxy,Solar System,Planet],)* [Operator], [World], [Lat, Long,
>Height], [Time of Observation UTC in MJD with decimals]
>
>  (MJD - Modified Julia Date)
>  (Operator is the originator/maintainer of the data.)
>
>The proposal is a good start but you lack some important things;
>
> - You need to be ale to express arbitrary resolution for Lat/Long.
>
>   Depending on the use, you might want to truncate the resolution to
>   not reveal the exact location of infrastructure, and then again you
>   may want to express exactly where things are.
>
>   You need to be able to express what we can measure for lat/long
>   as an example, so you have to be able to represent this in your
>   format:
>
>      LAT 59.317647949 North
>      LON 18.023390835 East
>
>- When it comes to height, we really have a problem;
>
>  - Different countries have different ways of measuring the "sea
>    level".
>  - The sea level are rising
>  - The land is also rising, like our Stockholm location is moving
>    about 11mm up and 7mm NE in average every year, so you need to
>    have a date on the observation of the position.
>  - The local observations have different ages
>  - GPS presented height is done with a theoretical model of the earth
>    and calculated based on the distance from the GPS satellite.
>
>   (Neighboring countries in some cases have more than 100cm
>    difference in their definition of sea level.)
>
>Height is a signed value, 1mm resolution, with a source identifier
>(you need way to add new identifiers for the future);
>       - WGS84
>       - Local official survey
>       - Local height (maybe from basement of building)
>       - Local sequence number
>
>- In some cases you want to describe something other than the natural
>world
>  itself. e.g., a VPN described as a flat plane, or military / private
>  tectical graph that is a different "plane" / "overlay" etc.
>
>  So we ended up with a Integer that represents the "world" you are
>  describing and the vale of 0 represent the natural world we all live in
>  and have as a common reference.
>
>(*) - The astronomers refers to planets in our solar system with a
>coordinate system with the sun as 0,0,0. Everything moves, continental
>drift to ephemerides of planets and satellites. I chose to leave those
>models out of scope as there is enough data in the proposed format to
>go to other sources and augment the positions.
>
>
>-Peter
>
>
>
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>
>