Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-shen-isis-geo-coordinates-03.txt

Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE> Thu, 24 August 2017 15:35 UTC

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Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2017 15:33:00 GMT
From: Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "isis-wg@ietf.org" <isis-wg@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-shen-isis-geo-coordinates-03.txt
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Acee,

(Thanks for the plain ascii...)

> Hi Peter, 
> 
> Thanks for your detailed response. One thing we decided since my original
> query was to move the YANG geo-location type out of the
> ietf-routing-types.yang model since we thought that we didnbt have enough
> review and experience to model it correctly. We are going to put it in a
> separate YANG model and, based on your response, there may be more than
> one YANG type. 

I'm happy to contribute on this, just put me in the loop. 

A generic Yang model for describing a location would be very
useful. Just remember it's not as simple as it first looks. 

I ended up digging into this when we needed to describe the network
as a graph, and you need to describe anything down to the location of
a connector on a panel/device in a building and then what
content/chanel is actually in that fiber/wire . 

> We will be discussing this in the future.

Please keep me in the loop.

--Peter

(ps: we can use a yang model to tell time anywhere in universe to...)


> Thanks,
> Acee 
> 
> On 8/23/17, 10:40 AM, "Peter Lothberg" <roll@Stupi.SE> wrote:
> 
> >Acee,
> >
> >I missed this message as it was just text encoded, no attachments, my
> >obsolete mail ui can't handle it...
> >
> >>Hi Peter,
> >>
> >>We wanted to assure that milliseconds of latitude/longitude offer
> >>enough granularity for your applications. This slightly more than 3
> >>cm granularity for latitude and slightly less the 3 cm granularity
> >>for longitude. 
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>Acee
> >
> >We have Geo coordinates to form a graph over the network, from cables
> >and ducts in the ground to the wiring inside a CO/POP/Datacenter.
> >
> >As Vint Cerf says we need to bring IPv6 to the planet as soon as
> >March, what we need to future proof this is a format that allows for
> >the following;
> >
> >([Galaxy,Solar System,Planet],)* [Operator], [World], [Lat, Long,
> >Height], [Time of Observation UTC in MJD with decimals]
> >
> >  (MJD - Modified Julia Date)
> >  (Operator is the originator/maintainer of the data.)
> >
> >The proposal is a good start but you lack some important things;
> >
> > - You need to be ale to express arbitrary resolution for Lat/Long.
> >
> >   Depending on the use, you might want to truncate the resolution to
> >   not reveal the exact location of infrastructure, and then again you
> >   may want to express exactly where things are.
> >
> >   You need to be able to express what we can measure for lat/long
> >   as an example, so you have to be able to represent this in your
> >   format:
> >
> >      LAT 59.317647949 North
> >      LON 18.023390835 East
> >
> >- When it comes to height, we really have a problem;
> >
> >  - Different countries have different ways of measuring the "sea
> >    level".
> >  - The sea level are rising
> >  - The land is also rising, like our Stockholm location is moving
> >    about 11mm up and 7mm NE in average every year, so you need to
> >    have a date on the observation of the position.
> >  - The local observations have different ages
> >  - GPS presented height is done with a theoretical model of the earth
> >    and calculated based on the distance from the GPS satellite.
> >
> >   (Neighboring countries in some cases have more than 100cm
> >    difference in their definition of sea level.)
> >
> >Height is a signed value, 1mm resolution, with a source identifier
> >(you need way to add new identifiers for the future);
> >       - WGS84
> >       - Local official survey
> >       - Local height (maybe from basement of building)
> >       - Local sequence number
> >
> >- In some cases you want to describe something other than the natural
> >world
> >  itself. e.g., a VPN described as a flat plane, or military / private
> >  tectical graph that is a different "plane" / "overlay" etc.
> >
> >  So we ended up with a Integer that represents the "world" you are
> >  describing and the vale of 0 represent the natural world we all live in
> >  and have as a common reference.
> >
> >(*) - The astronomers refers to planets in our solar system with a
> >coordinate system with the sun as 0,0,0. Everything moves, continental
> >drift to ephemerides of planets and satellites. I chose to leave those
> >models out of scope as there is enough data in the proposed format to
> >go to other sources and augment the positions.
> >
> >
> >-Peter
> >
> >
> >
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> 
>