Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in

Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE> Wed, 23 August 2017 14:50 UTC

Return-Path: <roll@Stupi.SE>
Received: from localhost (localhost []) by (Postfix) with ESMTP id 128D3132397 for <>; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:50:27 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from ([]) by localhost ( []) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HiAXoDvX2Nra for <>; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Stupi.SE (Mail.Stupi.SE []) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-CAMELLIA256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05201126DD9 for <>; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 07:50:20 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from Crap.Stupi.SE (Crap.Stupi.SE []) by Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.3) with ESMTP id v7NElfkJ043272; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:47:41 GMT (envelope-from roll@Stupi.SE)
Received: from Stupi.SE ( []) by Crap.Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.9) with ESMTP id v7NElcCX001317; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:47:41 GMT (envelope-from roll@Stupi.SE)
Received: from Stupi.SE (localhost []) by Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.3) with ESMTP id v7NEe5k6001379; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:40:07 GMT (envelope-from roll@Stupi.SE)
Received: (from roll@localhost) by Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.3/Submit) id v7NEe5et001378; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:40:05 GMT (envelope-from roll)
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:40:05 GMT
From: Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE>
Resent-Message-Id: <201708231440.v7NEe5et001378@Stupi.SE>
Received: from Stupi.SE (localhost []) by Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.3) with ESMTP id v7NAIRCn000812 for <roll@Stupi.SE>; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:18:27 GMT (envelope-from roll@Stupi.SE)
Received: (from roll@localhost) by Stupi.SE (8.14.9/8.14.3/Submit) id v7NAIN9F000811; Wed, 23 Aug 2017 10:18:23 GMT (envelope-from roll)
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <>
Cc: "" <>, roll@Stupi.SE
In-Reply-To: <>
Message-ID: <CMM.>
Resent-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:40:05 UTC
Resent-From: Peter Lothberg <roll@Stupi.SE>
Archived-At: <>
Subject: Re: [Isis-wg] Latitude/Longitude Granularity in
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF IS-IS working group <>
List-Unsubscribe: <>, <>
List-Archive: <>
List-Post: <>
List-Help: <>
List-Subscribe: <>, <>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 14:50:27 -0000


I missed this message as it was just text encoded, no attachments, my
obsolete mail ui can't handle it...

>Hi Peter,
>We wanted to assure that milliseconds of latitude/longitude offer
>enough granularity for your applications. This slightly more than 3
>cm granularity for latitude and slightly less the 3 cm granularity
>for longitude. 

We have Geo coordinates to form a graph over the network, from cables
and ducts in the ground to the wiring inside a CO/POP/Datacenter.

As Vint Cerf says we need to bring IPv6 to the planet as soon as
March, what we need to future proof this is a format that allows for
the following;

([Galaxy,Solar System,Planet],)* [Operator], [World], [Lat, Long,
Height], [Time of Observation UTC in MJD with decimals]

  (MJD - Modified Julia Date)
  (Operator is the originator/maintainer of the data.)

The proposal is a good start but you lack some important things;

 - You need to be ale to express arbitrary resolution for Lat/Long.

   Depending on the use, you might want to truncate the resolution to
   not reveal the exact location of infrastructure, and then again you
   may want to express exactly where things are. 

   You need to be able to express what we can measure for lat/long
   as an example, so you have to be able to represent this in your

      LAT 59.317647949 North
      LON 18.023390835 East

- When it comes to height, we really have a problem;

  - Different countries have different ways of measuring the "sea
  - The sea level are rising
  - The land is also rising, like our Stockholm location is moving 
    about 11mm up and 7mm NE in average every year, so you need to 
    have a date on the observation of the position.
  - The local observations have different ages
  - GPS presented height is done with a theoretical model of the earth
    and calculated based on the distance from the GPS satellite.

   (Neighboring countries in some cases have more than 100cm
    difference in their definition of sea level.)

Height is a signed value, 1mm resolution, with a source identifier
(you need way to add new identifiers for the future);
       - WGS84
       - Local official survey
       - Local height (maybe from basement of building)
       - Local sequence number

- In some cases you want to describe something other than the natural world
  itself. e.g., a VPN described as a flat plane, or military / private
  tectical graph that is a different "plane" / "overlay" etc. 

  So we ended up with a Integer that represents the "world" you are
  describing and the vale of 0 represent the natural world we all live in
  and have as a common reference.

(*) - The astronomers refers to planets in our solar system with a
coordinate system with the sun as 0,0,0. Everything moves, continental
drift to ephemerides of planets and satellites. I chose to leave those
models out of scope as there is enough data in the proposed format to
go to other sources and augment the positions.


> --_000_D576E8B0B65A3aceeciscocom_
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> SGkgUGV0ZXIsDQoNCldlIHdhbnRlZCB0byBhc3N1cmUgdGhhdCBtaWxsaXNlY29uZHMgb2YgbGF0
> aXR1ZGUvbG9uZ2l0dWRlIG9mZmVyIGVub3VnaCBncmFudWxhcml0eSBmb3IgeW91ciBhcHBsaWNh
> dGlvbnMuIFRoaXMgc2xpZ2h0bHkgbW9yZSB0aGFuIDMgY20gZ3JhbnVsYXJpdHkgZm9yIGxhdGl0
> DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCkFjZWUNCg==
> --_000_D576E8B0B65A3aceeciscocom_
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
> Content-ID: <>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> PGh0bWw+DQo8aGVhZD4NCjxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIgY29udGVudD0i
> dGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCjwvaGVhZD4NCjxib2R5IHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdy
> YXA6IGJyZWFrLXdvcmQ7IC13ZWJraXQtbmJzcC1tb2RlOiBzcGFjZTsgLXdlYmtpdC1saW5lLWJy
> ZWFrOiBhZnRlci13aGl0ZS1zcGFjZTsgY29sb3I6IHJnYigwLCAwLCAwKTsgZm9udC1zaXplOiAx
> NHB4OyBmb250LWZhbWlseTogQ2FsaWJyaSwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsiPg0KPGRpdj5IaSBQZXRlciwm
> bmJzcDs8L2Rpdj4NCjxkaXY+PGJyPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2PldlIHdhbnRlZCB0byBhc3N1cmUg
> dGhhdCBtaWxsaXNlY29uZHMgb2YgbGF0aXR1ZGUvbG9uZ2l0dWRlIG9mZmVyIGVub3VnaCBncmFu
> dWxhcml0eSBmb3IgeW91ciBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMuIFRoaXMgc2xpZ2h0bHkgbW9yZSB0aGFuIDMg
> Y20gZ3JhbnVsYXJpdHkgZm9yIGxhdGl0dWRlIGFuZCBzbGlnaHRseSBsZXNzIHRoZSAzIGNtIGdy
> YW51bGFyaXR5IGZvciBsb25naXR1ZGUuJm5ic3A7PC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2Pjxicj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0K
> PGRpdj5UaGFua3MsPC9kaXY+DQo8ZGl2PkFjZWUmbmJzcDs8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRt
> bD4NCg==
> --_000_D576E8B0B65A3aceeciscocom_--